What IRC users didn't want to say here

[manuel]

I'm posting this, because I was accused of making the show look bad.

The sad part is, IRC is not what makes the show look bad, its the show itself that makes it look bad.

I've slexied the log because it's yet another prime example of what is wrong with the show.

http://slexy.org/view/s20MnOoa7N

[Darren Kitchen]

I'm posting this, because I was accused of making the show look bad.

The sad part is, IRC is not what makes the show look bad, its the show itself that makes it look bad.

I've slexied the log because it's yet another prime example of what is wrong with the show.

http://slexy.org/view/s20MnOoa7N

I get what you're saying and if there is a specific thing about the show that you think is done wrong please speak up because we welcome constructive criticism. I want to make the best show possible for you guys. Since we started this season we've experimented subtly with the format.

The first dozen episodes were pretty tightly put together as we strove to keep it very professional.

Since 412 we've adopted a much looser format that encourages banter and thus our personalities shine through. As a result the episodes have gotten a little longer, but I don't think that's what the OP was on about.

Post CES we'll be adopting a more segment produced format. That is to say rather than shooting everything live to tape some segments will be shot out of order and given editing to keep them tight (quick and info rich).

Anyway feel free to speak your mind on the forums. Like I said we're trying to foster feedback all the time, whether is be via feedback@hak5.org, here, or elsewhere. If you have an idea of what would make the show better please tell us. :)

[Kung Fu Jesus]

Oh boy, well I guess I've been outted so I better just post on the forums, lol.

So to clarify (I made an awful typo toward the end there):

Hak5 staff, I'm sure you initially had intentions to do a great show and put tons of effort into it, but after the quick realization that you had a CEO breathing down your neck, I'm sure you soon learned the wiser. You may not realize it, but your segments tend to be less researched, detailed, or even interesting. I initially was thrilled to hear you join the Rev3 lineup with weekly episodes, but as time went on, the episodes got worse.

Some things that need to be adjusted:

Your assumptions for your userbase: Although you may not be knowledgeable or well rounded when it comes to Linux or other Unix-like environments, very much of your concentrated technical userbase is. DO NOT assume that most of the people watching the show use Windows, instead try to cover wider ranges of operating systems. Do not dumb down and degrade us to the lowest common denominator who watches the show. We are IT ninjas at times, but we're definitely more than that most of the time.

Your cast: This is really hard for me to say because I'm not a mean person, but your cast seems to be less knowledgeable than the smaller ones of the past. Sure you get more new members, lots of small itty bitty segments, but very few of them seem to be even remotely technically adept. With Wess gone and Allie (I think that was her name) out of the picture, I know you had to step it up a notch to increase productivity. But the result was a product with half-baked hosts. Shannon Morse acts stupidly uncomfortable in front of a camera and tends to make childish and eye-rollable remarks. In the meanwhile, I notice she's tried to increase her efforts at comfortability by drinking more in front of the set, which in turns makes things even sillier. I agree humor is great, but I found nothing amusing in the musings of Shannon Morse. Chris Gerling tends to be very trivial in his segments and sadly narrow focused which it comes to his subject matter. Most of what he talks about is in generalities if he doesn't know what he's talking about, and his generalities make me want to put a power drill to my temple.

Your content: The content as of lately seems to be incredibly lacking. Most of it is crappy shareware apps for windows or commercial VM's which are not even entertaining or informing to learn about in the least bit. My understanding is the reason you guys took 3 steps back from hardware hacking was to try to differentiate yourself from Systm, Rev3's other technology show (which tends to have more or less hardware hacking content). The hardware hacking was fun to learn about and featured a lot of exciting new tips and ideas. This was inspiring and original, please do not ruin the direction of your show to boost another one. That being said, something that has been a bit of a step forward for you guys may have been the USB armed laser/missile launcher. I congratulate you on producing that useless yet inspiring interface. Little snippets of code and ideas are great, dating back to the idea of the RSS newspaper. Please do not abandon these things, they are the roots of your show and are what made it wonderful.

[snakey]

strong kung fu there :)

[Darren Kitchen]

@Kung Fu Jesus,

Thank you for posting your feedback here. And to others I encourage the same.

While I'd prefer to only ever see positive feedback I actually value this more. Regarding your feedback I whole heartedly understand what you're saying. And while I cannot comment on any particular item you have brought up I can say with confidence that we have ideas, segments and other changes coming that I believe will satisfy your technolust.

I must correct two misconceptions on your part however. We do not have a CEO breathing down our necks. Any pressure we face making the show is unto ourselves. When we strive for great content we deliver great content. When we half assed research and present the same night as shooting we deliver crap. GIGO. And second we haven't dropped hardware hacks from our lineup to differentiate ourselves from SYSTM. We have merely put them on the back burner due to budget constraints.

Things like the USB Missile Launcher and the Pineapple are examples of the technomashups that have always fueled the show. Like the RSS Alarm/Newspapers and mini-arcade before, I haven't forgotten our roots. We have more great hardware hacks planned but since they are expensive and time consuming please don't expect more than one a month.

Anyway, I'm sure when we bring the pre-produced segment element back to the show you'll notice a higher quality of material. I'm shooting for a mixture of the scripted elements of S1 with the unrehearsed fun of S4.

[Xarf]

Since Rev3 I skip through episodes in about 5mins to see if there's any decent content in there =/

One thing that caught my eye was:

[23:49] <mubix> if you have a complaint, please use the forum
[23:50] <Snakey> if you say anything on the forums you get banned
[23:50] <KungFuJesus> mubix: is feedback@hak5.org still around?
[23:50] <mubix> yup

What's this all about? No complaints in IRC now?

[VaKo]

You can say what you want in the forums as long as it doesn't piss me off, and i'm a hard person to piss off. So, feel free to discuss anything here.

[OtterFox]

When I first started watching Hak5, I only understood about half of what was being talked about but found it really interesting.

Now a few years later I understand most of what's going on and find it boring/irrelavant to me and generally skip through most of the episode until I find a segment or two that interests me.

Maybe the show is catering to a newbier audiance/ I'm not as newbish anymore. But I don't think Hak5 can cover all levels at once, and that's alright, I just watch the bits that I find interesting.

Part of what makes Hak5 are the projects, such as the pineapple and RSS alarm.

Yes, I still enjoy watching Hak5, but I may be looking for a additional show or two to suplement it at my desired level (or just read more)

I really enjoyed the side story(Allie and Evil Server) and was disappointed when it was canceled :(

Another thing that I enjoyed the episodes involving hacking with Harison, which were always good learning about what's out there and can be done.

[manuel]

Since Rev3 I skip through episodes in about 5mins to see if there's any decent content in there =/

One thing that caught my eye was:

[23:49] <mubix> if you have a complaint, please use the forum
[23:50] <Snakey> if you say anything on the forums you get banned
[23:50] <KungFuJesus> mubix: is feedback@hak5.org still around?
[23:50] <mubix> yup

What's this all about? No complaints in IRC now?

Quite teh opposite, actually... this user wanted Darren to know, but felt it easier to go to IRC, rather than forums, where Darren and cast frequent more. IRC is not frequented by cast much at all, unfortunately.

[Xarf]

You can say what you want in the forums

Be careful what you say..

[Chris Gerling]

I try to balance information with fun. If you want to get certified in something go to a real training event by a real training company.

[psydT0ne]

I'm in two minds about the issue.

I'm still a very very loyal hak5 fan and learned so much from the early days of hak5...right from season one.

I've been inspired to get off my ass and try new ideas and the snippets of code and rolled in the joy of getting these things to work for me, (rss newspaper was one of my biggest joys!!!wooot it works!!)

I admire Darren's open door approach to criticism and I've seen the show change and evolve with the fan suggestions and ideas about ongoing show content.

But alas there's the other side of the coin....

I too find myself fast forwarding each weekly episode to see if there's anything interesting at all and if not, well it gets archived into my "stuff i'll watch later"

In times past I just couldn't wait for the next monthly episode to come out.

Man, I still watch seasons 1,2 to get that old buzz back.

I can't see any significant event that would have caused this to influence my judgement in this way, apart from the move to Rev3.

Now I'm just saying that this seemed to be a turning point, but I'm well aware that there may be many other factors that have contributed to the show be presented in it's current format.

I for one enjoyed Hak5 as it was because of its home brew feel and the admirable geekiness of its loveable cast members.

I enjoyed Darrens' busted hand with led's, Wess' cow bell revolution dance moves, Pauls' segments, in which he always looked like he'd rather be back behind the camera and Ali's great pirate costume :)

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that, for me Hak5 was always about approachable everyday people doing really cool geeky fun stuff!

The current show format just seems too professional, too polished, too rushed to meet a schedule (whatever or whoever that schedule may be for). With the notable exception of the Pineapple, segments just seem to feature more "out of the box" type stuff rather innovative hacks. I guess less of "check out what this product does" and more " hey check out what i've been coding/modding/hacking etc".

Well there's my bit, for what its worth...

[deleted]

I hate to agree with alot of this, but I do.

I started watching mid-way though series one, and if you compare a series one episode to a series 4 episode you can see whats changed.

In my opinion, I much preferred it when hak5 was done in the style of the episode one's. I know it was a bit "un-professinal" and a bit sloppy, but I felt that added to the charm of the show. I also like it when they cast got down and dirty with tech, rather than taking a slower approch and explaining everything thouroughly now.

Thats just what I think, if you disagree just ignore me.

[VaKo]

Be careful what you say..

Given that for the moment I'm in charge of the forums, I think its unfair to say we ban people for speaking out. We've had numourous arguements/debates over the show and none of these has resulted in someone being banned. I mean Manuel spoke out directly against the cast and the idea of banning him for this didn't even cross my mind. Act like a dick, and you will most likely be banned but voicing a greivence in a constructive fashion won't even get you close.

(Snakey, you know you were banned for being a objectional cunt in general, not for any political reason.

[Darren Kitchen]

Quite teh opposite, actually... this user wanted Darren to know, but felt it easier to go to IRC, rather than forums, where Darren and cast frequent more. IRC is not frequented by cast much at all, unfortunately.

I wish I had the time to frequent the IRC more. At least when I do I generally have a good experience.

[HostRail]

I like hak5 a lot. Yes Darren is quaky, Shannon is awkward, Matt is blunt and mubix is 1337. But the show is free and has a lot of good information. And the community rocks, lan party's, trivia, giveaways, road trips, etc.

I would like to see a repository or wish list that we could populate with ideas for the crew for future segments.

[Seshan]

I like hak5 a lot. Yes Darren is quaky, Shannon is awkward, Matt is blunt and mubix is 1337. But the show is free and has a lot of good information. And the community rocks, lan party's, trivia, giveaways, road trips, etc.

I would like to see a repository or wish list that we could populate with ideas for the crew for future segments.

http://hak5.org/forums/index.php?showforum=4 :D

I'd have to agree with some of what has been said, I have been fast forwarding episodes to see if there is anything that interest me and lately there's been less that does :(

[metatron]

I don't really like the show but I have to give it to them they do try and they are one of the few shows that are still about, most tech related, internet based shows have died off.

[3vmike]

Ok so, they go from a once a month show, ten times a year, to a weekly show 52 times a year, and you guys expect them to have the same great content every show?

It takes a lot of time to make each weekly show, and I certainly think they are doing their very best.

That said, I understand what some viewers are talking about. The kind of content in each show has changed. Perhaps this is influence from new cast members, perhaps this is due to a quickened release schedule.

What we, as viewers, should remember is, as darren said, constructive criticizm is usefull. Personal attacks are inappropriate and mean spirited.

There is going to be a period of growing pains, as the cast and audience adjust to the new release schedule. We should trust in the cast to hear our feedback and do what ever they can to improve the show, but if your expecting, GREAT segments, that will satisfy EVERYONE'S technolust, EVERY episode you are just asking to be disappointed.

One last thing, lets not forget these guys have regular day jobs just like everyone else, and they do this in their free time....

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK GUYS, THERE ARE THOSE OF US OUT HERE WHO UNDERSTAND AND ARE PULLING FOR YOU.

flame away!

[Kung Fu Jesus]

Don't get me wrong, there are some things done right. Of which are:

Conferences: Shmoocon, Defcon, Phreaknic, Daycon - all of the conferences are covered in a desirable manner. The interview with int80 was particularly interesting to me, as I know the guy on an informal level (we meet monthly at a what-is-to-be-unnamed hacker organization here in Cincinnati).

Jasager - Coolest freaking pineapple ever. A very great animation explaining the fonapple as well.

Example of a bad segment - Explanation of a TCP packet. Very much of the technical detail was omitted or adlibbed. The building blocks although kind of clever at first became a poor teaching tool as the colors became repeated, an onscreen graphic would have been more helpful than the legos. Things like differentiating TCP from UDP and the filterability of either type of packet (inspired of course by the recent mutorrent decision to force UDP traffic) would have been a very informational segment. An example of an arp poison and TCP filter to change something like instances of strings would have been a simple grey/blackhat example of the usefulness of this knowledge. Instead the application was sniffing for an IRC password without packet injection. The SSL/cookie session sharing was a great application, though.

Example of alienating your Linux viewerbase - I think it was Matt who claimed that most of the viewers are using Windows or if they are using Linux, they're using Ubuntu. Now yes, if you do an Ubuntu explanation, most experienced Linux users can derive a method to some other non-debian based distribution without a problem, but claiming that the majority of us cling to Ubuntu was a bit insulting. I am that Gentoo, FreeBSD, Slackware, and Solaris user. I do not consider myself a rarity in any way by this.

[Darren Kitchen]

Example of alienating your Linux viewerbase - I think it was Matt who claimed that most of the viewers are using Windows or if they are using Linux, they're using Ubuntu. Now yes, if you do an Ubuntu explanation, most experienced Linux users can derive a method to some other non-debian based distribution without a problem, but claiming that the majority of us cling to Ubuntu was a bit insulting. I am that Gentoo, FreeBSD, Slackware, and Solaris user. I do not consider myself a rarity in any way by this.

And if you go back and rewatch that you'll notice I am quick to take the defense of the linux audience, personally noting the leetness of the slackware and gentoo supporters. It's live to tape, Matt is blunt and likes to stir things up, and there is drinking involved. Take it with a grain of salt.

We'll be featuring Linux and other alternative operating systems when featuring open source applications or embedded devices. But none of us claim to be *nix experts. We know enough to get things running, troubleshoot, and tinker but I'm sure the compiled from source crowd in the audience wouldn't be amused if we tried to tackle Linux segments beyond our grasp.

[Kung Fu Jesus]

I'll put my money where my mouth is. When I come up with a 1337 idea for a Linux segment I'll post it on the forums.

*shuts up*

[Deags]

something interesting might be howto install a desktop enviroment and vnc(with ssh tunnel for security) from ssh with out needing to connect a monitor(even if you are using apt or yum). I've never done it but i know people new to linux pay others to set it up for them on rented dedicated servers to avoid paying windows license fee's to get a easy to use interface. Good example OS would be centos or debian as they are commonly provided by hosts. I think this is something the community might enjoy. I'm not sure.

Howto setup ftpd server or your own filesharing network/ direct connect type network. Might be interesting. If you were considering doing this you might want to pick something that is java based(or similar) and quickly outline howto setup the enviroment on linux and windows so both groups have something to gain. While these segments do seem long if you know what you are doing they can take minutes. After all this is a podcast i'm sure viewers can pause it.

But seriously i havent watch an episode in ages now heh. I've flicked through two eps of this season so far. Just some comments. Chris Gerling seems to come accross as he doesnt quite fully understand what he is talking about(while i may not be 100% sure whats going on i get the feeling he is a bit lost too). I'm not a total nerd. I just have too much spare time(well used to). I feel people watch a geek show expecting geeking and not this crap they have been fed as of late.

[Kung Fu Jesus]

something interesting might be howto install a desktop enviroment and vnc(with ssh tunnel for security) from ssh with out needing to connect a monitor(even if you are using apt or yum). I've never done it but i know people new to linux pay others to set it up for them on rented dedicated servers to avoid paying windows license fee's to get a easy to use interface. Good example OS would be centos or debian as they are commonly provided by hosts. I think this is something the community might enjoy. I'm not sure.

Howto setup ftpd server or your own filesharing network/ direct connect type network. Might be interesting. If you were considering doing this you might want to pick something that is java based(or similar) and quickly outline howto setup the enviroment on linux and windows so both groups have something to gain. While these segments do seem long if you know what you are doing they can take minutes. After all this is a podcast i'm sure viewers can pause it.

But seriously i havent watch an episode in ages now heh. I've flicked through two eps of this season so far. Just some comments. Chris Gerling seems to come accross as he doesnt quite fully understand what he is talking about(while i may not be 100% sure whats going on i get the feeling he is a bit lost too). I'm not a total nerd. I just have too much spare time(well used to). I feel people watch a geek show expecting geeking and not this crap they have been fed as of late.

At the same time I appreciate that he admits if he's going over his head. I want honesty from the hosts, and Hak5 does deliver honesty and tries to prevent misinformation. I do tip my hat off for him, he does make a great effort to provide a segment weekly.

[DLSS]

ok im getting in this thread late but must say manuel, kung fu ninja, are right (and to be honest most of us expected it to when u guys moved to rev3).

i used to watch every show, enjoy it, and look forward to the next one with anticipation.

now i hardly watch every third show , and forward bits that get boring or are just too basic,

and as mentioned by others snubs is probably a verry clever girl (no doubt as she chhose u darren :) )

but she acts really dumb in front of the camera (stagefright ?)

as said before we want to see more hardware hacks, and stuff on different platforms.

i can honestly say i currently mainly use windows (but also run ubuntu)

but i'd still rather see segments on linux, unix, hell even mac if it has to.

we're here to learn isnt it?

i kno windows most of us do, most of us run dualboot (and the rest can run vm's),

there's a lot more to learn on linux, and probably a lot more interesting stuff most of us dont kno.

this used to be the greatest show on the net but lately i'm finding infinity exists more interesting, with topics like : XSS Tunneling, DNS spoofing, Downfalls of Anti-Virus Software ,Fix Google Mail Enumerator, SMB Relay Exploit, trojan basics

but even they also do verry basic stuff like manipulating user accounts, email spoofing, wep cracking, etc

but at least they mix it up a bit more...

bsodtv is also still around, with foxx especially doing great segments with both hardware (building various antenna's, recievers, modding wifi cards, etc, etc ,etc) , software, console hacks (and his great sense of sarcasme :P)

both of those shows have a practically unexisting budget or production value,

but they have great content, thats what makes a show, thats what used to make hak5 great

and another thing iptv used to mean shows some guys threw toghether in their garage/house and uploaded online, now its like i'm watching tv, everything is dumbed down, there's commercials, there's a studio, there's even that typical annoying watermark in the corner of the screen ...