Jump to content

Gunman at Virginia Tech


digip
 Share

Recommended Posts

Wow, that's bad. Kind of makes me thankful to be in the UK, even though I don't like much else about it. The US seems to have a crazy number of murders and school shootings. I can only think of one school shooting we had here, in 1996.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah we need to have stricter gun control. but the problem bunch of crazy republicans red necks are pro guns. Plus the NRA (National Rifle Association) threatens to do a sneer campaign to anyone who is for gun control. When you start heading south more and more people have guns. And places like Florida everyone has a gun. This was a tragedy, and I do not believe it is the school's fault, or anyones fault, but we need better gun control. Darren and Wess, you live in virginia... did you know anyone? Any thoughts...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tighter gun control laws won't stop criminals from getting guns. Just look at Massachusetts, we have the tightest gun control laws in the country, and that has yet to stop criminals and gang members from getting guns.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tighter gun control laws won't stop criminals from getting guns. Just look at Massachusetts, we have the tightest gun control laws in the country, and that has yet to stop criminals and gang members from getting guns.

I'm assuming there's no border checks at the borders of Massachusetts though, which makes getting guns only as hard as travelling to another state where they have looser gun control laws?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah we need to have stricter gun control. but the problem bunch of crazy republicans red necks are pro guns. Plus the NRA (National Rifle Association) threatens to do a sneer campaign to anyone who is for gun control. When you start heading south more and more people have guns. And places like Florida everyone has a gun. This was a tragedy, and I do not believe it is the school's fault, or anyones fault, but we need better gun control.

Please keep in mind that the people were killed in a gun-free zone. Thus having any gun was illegal. This didn't seem to stop the man from taking his weapon and shooting people, and a thousand other laws would have had the same effect. The people that actually follow the laws aren't usually the people who shoot and kill.

This killer obviously had no respect for any of the campus laws, state laws, or country laws put in place to stop him from killing. He knew that murdering was illegal.

daedalus

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah we need to have stricter gun control. but the problem bunch of crazy republicans red necks are pro guns. Plus the NRA (National Rifle Association) threatens to do a sneer campaign to anyone who is for gun control. When you start heading south more and more people have guns. And places like Florida everyone has a gun. This was a tragedy, and I do not believe it is the school's fault, or anyones fault, but we need better gun control.

Please keep in mind that the people were killed in a gun-free zone. Thus having any gun was illegal. This didn't seem to stop the man from taking his weapon and shooting people, and a thousand other laws would have had the same effect. The people that actually follow the laws aren't usually the people who shoot and kill.

This killer obviously had no respect for any of the campus laws, state laws, or country laws put in place to stop him from killing. He knew that murdering was illegal.

daedalus

I understand this all well and fine. I understand that the man did not follow any laws of the area. I mean killing people tends to be illegal, I am just saying tighter gun control throughout the country may change the easy access to weapons. Then again maybe I am a crazy liberal democrat who supports obama and has a "Snuke" up my asshole. If so please tell me why. I am open to debate, and would love to hear some counter arguments. After all, were all crazy. Some just more than others.

P.S. I hope you watch South Park and Understand what a Snuke is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am actually a student at the school. It has been a tragic day here. I just think it is absolutely terrible how the media is ripping into the school, most of the students from my perspective believe the school did the best that they could do. I just hope that the school will be able to recover and grow stronger from this situation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah we need to have stricter gun control. but the problem bunch of crazy republicans red necks are pro guns. Plus the NRA (National Rifle Association) threatens to do a sneer campaign to anyone who is for gun control. When you start heading south more and more people have guns. And places like Florida everyone has a gun. This was a tragedy, and I do not believe it is the school's fault, or anyones fault, but we need better gun control.

Please keep in mind that the people were killed in a gun-free zone. Thus having any gun was illegal. This didn't seem to stop the man from taking his weapon and shooting people, and a thousand other laws would have had the same effect. The people that actually follow the laws aren't usually the people who shoot and kill.

This killer obviously had no respect for any of the campus laws, state laws, or country laws put in place to stop him from killing. He knew that murdering was illegal.

daedalus

I understand this all well and fine. I understand that the man did not follow any laws of the area. I mean killing people tends to be illegal, I am just saying tighter gun control throughout the country may change the easy access to weapons. Then again maybe I am a crazy liberal democrat who supports obama and has a "Snuke" up my asshole. If so please tell me why. I am open to debate, and would love to hear some counter arguments. After all, were all crazy. Some just more than others.

P.S. I hope you watch South Park and Understand what a Snuke is.

I'm an uber Liberal and think there should be no gun control.. registering and required classes(live driving) yes but not control... If you want to get a gun and kill someone gun control will not stop you, nor will laws.

If you can give another reason for gun control other then the falsehood that it will stop people from killing other people, I'd love to know it...

Keep in mind you have a right to bear arms in the USA so someone somewhere will always have a gun!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you can give another reason for gun control other then the falsehood that it will stop people from killing other people, I'd love to know it...

I firmly believe there is no reason for any person outside law enforcement and the millitary to own a gun. The argument is that a regular person needs to own a gun to protect himself from some violent element in society, yet there's this annoying statistic that says most people are killed by their own weapons.

So let's look at it from the other side:

If you can give another reason for gun possession other than the apparent falsehood that it will keep you safe, I'd love to know it...

But yeah, even gun control won't stop a maniac from being a maniac. Here in .nl weapons are _tightly_ controlled and pretty much only professionals (i.e. police and hardcore criminals) have access to firearms. We have the odd liquidation now and again, but normally when someone loses it they tend to stab, burn, drown or suffocate their targets, or simply beat them to death.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you can give another reason for gun control other then the falsehood that it will stop people from killing other people, I'd love to know it...

I firmly believe there is no reason for any person outside law enforcement and the millitary to own a gun. The argument is that a regular person needs to own a gun to protect himself from some violent element in society, yet there's this annoying statistic that says most people are killed by their own weapons.

So let's look at it from the other side:

If you can give another reason for gun possession other than the apparent falsehood that it will keep you safe, I'd love to know it...

But yeah, even gun control won't stop a maniac from being a maniac. Here in .nl weapons are _tightly_ controlled and pretty much only professionals (i.e. police and hardcore criminals) have access to firearms. We have the odd liquidation now and again, but normally when someone loses it they tend to stab, burn, drown or suffocate their targets, or simply beat them to death.

so you're saying that gun should be controlled because... wait what... why?

Because guns are a tool just like a car they can make life easier depending on how they are used.

And don't get me wrong I think the wording is "of a well organized militia" there for if you wan't to own a gun you have to get training and be able to be called up like the national guard for if something was to happen on our own soil. I.E. bush can't send you off to jack up oil prices for his little buddies!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am a Demoacrat, but I still think we have the right to bear arms. Legally of course, and so long as it servers a lawfull purpose, such as hunting or defending my home. There are already strict regulations on guns, so that isn't going to stop people from using them to kill others. I would not vote against gun control, but I am certainly not for it either. There is a purpose, time and a place for using a gun, and killing someone you don't like isn't one of them.

If someone wants to kill another person, getting rid of guns is not going to stop them. God forbid, but, there are always suicide bombers out there who don't give a sh*t about anyone including themselves, so if someone really wants to kill a bunch of people, there isn't anything, anyone, or any law to stop it from happening. Pipe bombs and explosives, poison gas and chemical warfare, etc. The list goes on forever. People are sick in the head, and they will do whatever they want.

What happend here was tragic, and no matter how you try to enforce laws against it, any insane person will figure out a way to hurt people if he/she really wants to. You can't blame gun control for the a$$holes who do this sort of stuff.

No matter what laws there are and no matter what guns they take off the market, someone will get one, and most of the time, easily. It's like the war on Drugs. They can't stop it from coming into the country, and they can't stop guns any more than they can someone buying a stick of chewing gum in a 7-11. If there is a will, they will find a way, no matter what the law, because they already KNOW that they are going to break the law when the decided to take a life. It was pre-meditated, and no gun control is going to stop it from happening.

Take all the guns away and make them only available for law enforcement and the military, and you will still have people killed by the use of guns. Lets also not foget those crazy snipers with a few screws loose who were ex military or whatever, so there is no stopping the insane person from fullfilling their agenda. Just a few years ago we had that guy who moved around the country from Washington DC to Seattle, killing people with his sniper skills.

We live in a strange and dangerous world, and while I think having a gun in the house is always a bad idea (kids can get into anything), if your a sane and skilled marksman who respects the purpose of a gun, I'd rather have the option to defend my home than no option at all if it came down to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think tighter gun control would reduce certain types of shootings, a lot of school shootings aren't really by the "typical" criminals, they are often just kids who are sometimes social outcasts or have mental problems. In a country like the US where there are already so many guns in the country I doubt gun control would ever stop people in gangs getting hold of them, but middle class high school kids could have more trouble. They might use a knife or car instead, but I don't see someone being able to kill as many people that way.

Here in the UK handguns have been illegal for a decade or so now, and I'm sure criminal gangs can still get hold of them easily, but I have no idea how I would get one if I wanted to go on a shooting spree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think tighter gun control would reduce certain types of shootings, a lot of school shootings aren't really by the "typical" criminals, they are often just kids who are sometimes social outcasts or have mental problems. In a country like the US where there are already so many guns in the country I doubt gun control would ever stop people in gangs getting hold of them, but middle class high school kids could have more trouble. They might use a knife or car instead, but I don't see someone being able to kill as many people that way.

Here in the UK handguns have been illegal for a decade or so now, and I'm sure criminal gangs can still get hold of them easily, but I have no idea how I would get one if I wanted to go on a shooting spree.

Horza, have you seen the news lately, all over the BBC there is "gun crime on the rise" and "Person shot dead"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It doesn't matter what weapons you ban, people will get other weapons and still kill people. If you're intent on killing someone and you can't get a gun, it's guaranteed you'll find another weapon to do the job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

sigh @ america playing rl cs again :(

Let's not make this an "America" issue. It is a worldwide issue with gun violence, and murder in general.

By your little joke, I guess that the people in Iraq are then playing Counter Strike and suicide bombings are just fun little games people play...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Horza, have you seen the news lately, all over the BBC there is "gun crime on the rise" and "Person shot dead"

Yes, but the media over-sensationalises and the fact is murders were down last year in the UK. And those gun crimes are usually committed by gangs, which I said in my previous post could get guns.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It doesn't matter what weapons you ban, people will get other weapons and still kill people. If you're intent on killing someone and you can't get a gun, it's guaranteed you'll find another weapon to do the job.

I think people ignore how fantastically powerful a weapon a gun is considering its size (particularly hand guns). Certain weapons should be controlled due to how dangerous they are. The logic "they'll just find another weapon" could apply to chemical weapons or biological weapons, why should those be controlled if people will just find another way to kill people? Guns are a simple way to kill a lot of people with very little planning or resources required.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It doesn't matter what weapons you ban, people will get other weapons and still kill people. If you're intent on killing someone and you can't get a gun, it's guaranteed you'll find another weapon to do the job.

I think people ignore how fantastically powerful a weapon a gun is considering its size (particularly hand guns). Certain weapons should be controlled due to how dangerous they are. The logic "they'll just find another weapon" could apply to chemical weapons or biological weapons, why should those be controlled if people will just find another way to kill people? Guns are a simple way to kill a lot of people with very little planning or resources required.

If your willing to build a safe bubble for us to live in, I am all for it. Just send me the address so I can move in. Until then, I do not think releiving myself the right to defend my home by use of gun force is a means to an end.

BTW, I do not own or carry a gun, but I should have the right to do so in self defense. In our country its more then just a constitutional right to bear arms. In some parts of the world, it is the difference between life and death. For some families with no way to defend oneself from a forced attack on ones home, a gun is a good deterent, even if it's just to fire a warning shot into the air, or 3 feet from your attacker.

I am not PRO-GUN per say, but I beleive I reserve the right to have and carry one for the purpose of self defense against an attacker, foreign or domestic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...chemical weapons or biological weapons, why should those be controlled if people will just find another way to kill people? Guns are a simple way to kill a lot of people with very little planning or resources required...

Average every day garden supplies are chemical weapons. 90% of pipe bombs made by kids involve some form of fertilizer and over the counter supplies from any hardware store or gardern center. We also have this thing called the internet, where poeple cna look up instructions for just about ANYTHING. Are you ready to start policing the web as well. How about we stop hacking as well. Shouldn't we be able to crack down on it just like guns?

Its not the knowledge that kills, its who uses it and what they do with it that is the problem. A gun does not pull the trigger. A bullet by itself cannot kill anyone. It takes a person with a motivated desire to shoot someone and hurt or kill them in the process. The gun has nothing to do with it, its the person holding the gun you need to be afraid of...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My view on gun control is not based on whether I want to have guns or not but rather whether or not I want my idiot neighbor to have one. So I'm fairly happy with the licensing system we got here in Sweden.

As for the right to bear arms in the US, the impression I have from what I remember from history class is that the purpose basically was to defend against three things. The British, your own government gone nuts and criminals when law enforcement officials weren't readily available. None of those really apply anymore and it seems like that amendment only remains because of nostalgia and that it has a nice ring to it.

Making guns scarcer does make an impact, the crazies that want to shoot people can still get a hold of them but they will have to make an effort. Not having instant access to such dangerous weapons at least makes the impulsive ones less lethal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My view on gun control is not based on whether I want to have guns or not but rather whether or not I want my idiot neighbor to have one. So I'm fairly happy with the licensing system we got here in Sweden.

As for the right to bear arms in the US, the impression I have from what I remember from history class is that the purpose basically was to defend against three things. The British, your own government gone nuts and criminals when law enforcement officials weren't readily available. None of those really apply anymore and it seems like that amendment only remains because of nostalgia and that it has a nice ring to it.

Making guns scarcer does make an impact, the crazies that want to shoot people can still get a hold of them but they will have to make an effort. Not having instant access to such dangerous weapons at least makes the impulsive ones less lethal.

I don't know where people are getting the idea that we just have free access to guns like at any store, but you need to apply for a gun permit, and also be approved for such before being able to buy a gun. There are strict laws here in the US already for gun control, but like Killzone said:

he U.S. is not the Wild West. There are very strict gun laws here...in most states....and gun law is largely governed by state law, not national law.

There are very rarely any type of stand off between civilians with permits, and any type of government official.

Similarly there are very few instances where civilians with lawful gun permits are involved in shootings or armed conflicts with criminals.

Lastly: It is just as easy here as anywhere for criminals to get guns. Having fewer citizens lawfully carrying guns would not affect the ability of criminals to obtain them. And it is the criminals who engage in armed conflicts with government officials.

I couldn't say it any better. See his post here: http://www.hak5.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p...ighlight=#66770

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In a nutshell, what are the rules under which a gun can be kept in your own home? How big a deal is it if that gun were to somehow go missing?

I saw a documentary on the Crips (yeah, I know. Bad example) where the head honcho said that while he was in prison his little brother went and broke into a number of houses and stole those individual's firearms. The way he told it I got the distinct impression that it was rediculously easy for his brother to do this. When you see other programs in which they show guns being kept in unlocked drawers, closets, shoe boxes and what have you that impression gets reinforced. Things like this lead me to believe that simply having a lot of guns among the populace does actually make it far easier for an individual who might not legally be able to acquire a gun to do so anyways.

And when you watch Bowling For Columbine and see some teenage kid go to a Wallmart (a fucking WALLMART!) and purchase insane quantities of bullets without having any questions asked, can you really blame us foreigners for saying you should be even more strict?

Since you're a registered gun owner (hypothetically) you should walk into a store (and I'd personally prefer a speciality store for this to be honest), show your permit which gets checked against the national registry (I'm assuming it's a national one), brings up the guns you registerred and legally own, and, assuming your permit's still valid, only be able to purchase ammo for those specific guns.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In a nutshell, what are the rules under which a gun can be kept in your own home? How big a deal is it if that gun were to somehow go missing?

I saw a documentary on the Crips (yeah, I know. Bad example) where the head honcho said that while he was in prison his little brother went and broke into a number of houses and stole those individual's firearms. The way he told it I got the distinct impression that it was rediculously easy for his brother to do this. When you see other programs in which they show guns being kept in unlocked drawers, closets, shoe boxes and what have you that impression gets reinforced. Things like this lead me to believe that simply having a lot of guns among the populace does actually make it far easier for an individual who might not legally be able to acquire a gun to do so anyways.

And when you watch Bowling For Columbine and see some teenage kid go to a Wallmart (a fucking WALLMART!) and purchase insane quantities of bullets without having any questions asked, can you really blame us foreigners for saying you should be even more strict?

Since you're a registered gun owner (hypothetically) you should walk into a store (and I'd personally prefer a speciality store for this to be honest), show your permit which gets checked against the national registry (I'm assuming it's a national one), brings up the guns you registerred and legally own, and, assuming your permit's still valid, only be able to purchase ammo for those specific guns.

I would say there is definately a problem with places like Walmart, but it is Walmart we are talking about after all.

Most of the incidents where people have bought them in Walmart are in states with less strict gun laws, but since Colombine most of them have been cracked down on and much harder to buy.

I live in New Jersey, so things are a bit different here. We have cops being shot at normal traffic stops in places you would never think to worry about.

I remember my father being denied a gun permit for hunting because of a prior arrest he had when he was younger(nothing too serious) but it still followed him and to this day he cannot get a gun permit because of it. That does not mean he would not be able to get a gun or ammo if he wanted to.

The problem isnt so much with where or how they get them, its with the person weilding it, and while yes, they should have a nationwide consensus, each state has its own laws and standards. That is one part I don't like about it. There should be a check for every time someone goes in to buy ammo for a specific gun, but sadly this is not the case. It really doesn't deter the people who want to do harm though, even if there were. Most of these people doing the killing aren't your average sane citizen.

I think in the state of Pennsylvania you are allowed to own a 50 caliber gun. I think it is the only state in the US that still allows such a large caliber gun to still be legally owned within the US and is powerfull enough to peirce the skin of a plane flying over head. Not somehting I think we need for self defense, but its the kind of thing that most criminals arent going to be looking for either. They will most likely want a small handgun or semi-automatic for hiding its size.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...