Gunman at Virginia Tech

[jool]

I don't know where people are getting the idea that we just have free access to guns like at any store, but you need to apply for a gun permit, and also be approved for such before being able to buy a gun. There are strict laws here in the US already for gun control, but like Killzone said:

I guess we are getting that idea from television, movies, documentaries and the news. It might not be as easy as it seems but even in the strictest of states it is still extremely quick and easy compared to most European countries. I did actually look around and I'm not completely guessing.

The biggest differences in the generalized rules between the US and Europe are that in Europe you normally need a license for each firearm and you need to have a valid reason for each as well. Valid reasons are basically only hunting, collecting and target shooting, of course the weapon needs to suit that purpose also. Using a firearm for anything except what it was licensed for is prohibited. All firearms are registered to the owner. Loosing a firearm is a bad thing, jail or fines, even if it was stolen if you store it improperly.

[911alertme]

I can remember when an illegal gun (fully automatic or something) was found in the possession of someone who was about to commit a mass killing here in Canada. Anyway, this gun was traced to the US. Canada is pretty tight with the gun control. We had a gun registry thing but too be honest it was a BIG FLOP because it cost the government millions but was a step in the right direction. Anyway back on topic, I think that tighter gun control in the US would be beneficial to Canada for sure and maybe even the whole world.

I firmly believe there is no reason for any person outside law enforcement and the millitary to own a gun. The argument is that a regular person needs to own a gun to protect himself from some violent element in society, yet there's this annoying statistic that says most people are killed by their own weapons.

I disagree. Here in Canada many people own guns (perhaps more than in the States) but there almost nobody has a handgun because of strict laws against them and they're brutal for what we use them for up here (hunting :D). As far as I know, there is nobody here that keeps handguns scattered around their house for protection reasons (I heard people keep guns in every room of their house in the southern States).

[Cosmo]

In a nutshell, what are the rules under which a gun can be kept in your own home? How big a deal is it if that gun were to somehow go missing?

I have a Bushmaster Carbine 5.56. Mass law requires me to keep it disassembled, and in a gun safe or traveling case at all times, unless I'm on a range or hunting grounds. And if your gun/rifle is stolen, it's in your best interest to report it immediately, because the serial is licensed to you.

[SmoothCriminal]

Ok... I have a lot to say in responses so bare with me.

I firmly believe there is no reason for any person outside law enforcement and the millitary to own a gun. The argument is that a regular person needs to own a gun to protect himself from some violent element in society, yet there's this annoying statistic that says most people are killed by their own weapons.

I completely agree with this statement. I am tired of people referring to guns as tools. A gun IMO is not a tool, which would imply it has a good use. A gun is a way of causing death. I hate also when people refer to our founding fathers on the gun issue. Back in the 1700's and early 1800's we did need a gun. There were few law enforcement officers, and we needed to defend against the British soldiers, but this is over 200 years later. And even back then we did not need pistols, or assault weapons (which a couple years ago were made legal) and they certainly did not need to carry a concealed weapon with them (legal in Arizona). We now have some of the best law enforcement in the world. Sure many people say they need to defend themselves, but if we had tighter gun control this would not be needed. I am aware of the fact that guns will still slip in to the hands of gangs, but to the majority of the people they would be hard to get. When people start referring to the "strict gun licensing program" I actually start to laugh. Getting a license is a complete joke. The guns used in the killings were legally purchased. And if you go to a gun show (not looking at my arms... an actual convention) you do not even need a license. Digip when you referred to the families needing to protect themselves it made me cringe. Any home with children inside SHOULD NOT have weapons inside. I dont care if they are kept in a locked safe, they should not have guns near children, the statistics are to scary (and if you keep a gun in a safe, you probably won't have time to go to the safe, enter the combo, and get out the gun/load it, before the burglar has put a hole in your head). About 5 years ago someone I knew got depressed about his girl friend dumping him, he found his parents gun. He decided that if he shot himself in the stomach he would live, and the girl friend might go out with him again. He did not live, he was in 8th grade about to graduate on to high school.

And back to the subject of the shooting. My heart goes out to all of the kids and parents involved. Strife25 i truly do feel sorry for you and everyone there. I do not blame the faculty for this. NO ONE can be prepared for what happened. Do people expect armed guards to stand at the doors of learning centers? I also hope this shooting does not hurt the schools reputation as one of the best in the world also. Good luck with the following days, our prayers are with you.

[digip]

Guns in general are bad for what a person can do with them, but in my opinion, they have a place and time for their use.

SmoothCriminal, just so we're clear on this. I have a daughter, and I do not have a gun in my house, nor do I own one, or want one. It still is my right to have one though, regardless. I do beleive that hand guns and semi-automatic or even automatic weapons have no purpose in ones home. A shotgun or rifle for hunting and protection though, I think is up the the RESPONSIBLE individual who owns the gun. This obviously wasn't the case with the troubled person who committed this horrible act. It doesn't matter if they were purchased legally or not. There was not one person shot who had less than three bullet wounds each. This person had planned this with intent on having enough ammo to get his plan completed, and I don't think there is anything anyone could have done unless they had known before hand. Maybe if someone had seen him or heard about it before hand they could have diffused the situation, but if he is walking around with a gun planning to kill anyone in his path, there isn't much choice left but to take him out with the force needed by law enforcment.

I don't want to get into debating the politics of gun control or wether it is right or wrong to have one.

This thread was started with intent to reach out to anyone who attends the school and maybe bring us a little closer together in the process. It was not to divide the members of this forum for their beleifs, all valid and worthy opions, I respect anyones right to add their point of view on it, but lets not make this a debate over gun laws.

[SomeoneE1se]

I am tired of people referring to guns as tools. A gun IMO is not a tool, which would imply it has a good use. A gun is a way of causing death. I hate also when people refer to our founding fathers on the gun issue. Back in the 1700's and early 1800's we did need a gun. There were few law enforcement officers, and we needed to defend against the British soldiers, but this is over 200 years later. And even back then we did not need pistols, or assault weapons (which a couple years ago were made legal) and they certainly did not need to carry a concealed weapon with them (legal in Arizona). We now have some of the best law enforcement in the world. Sure many people say they need to defend themselves, but if we had tighter gun control this would not be needed. I am aware of the fact that guns will still slip in to the hands of gangs, but to the majority of the people they would be hard to get. When people start referring to the "strict gun licensing program" I actually start to laugh. Getting a license is a complete joke. The guns used in the killings were legally purchased. And if you go to a gun show (not looking at my arms... an actual convention) you do not even need a license. Digip when you referred to the families needing to protect themselves it made me cringe. Any home with children inside SHOULD NOT have weapons inside. I dont care if they are kept in a locked safe, they should not have guns near children, the statistics are to scary (and if you keep a gun in a safe, you probably won't have time to go to the safe, enter the combo, and get out the gun/load it, before the burglar has put a hole in your head). About 5 years ago someone I knew got depressed about his girl friend dumping him, he found his parents gun. He decided that if he shot himself in the stomach he would live, and the girl friend might go out with him again. He did not live, he was in 8th grade about to graduate on to high school.

And back to the subject of the shooting. My heart goes out to all of the kids and parents involved. Strife25 i truly do feel sorry for you and everyone there. I do not blame the faculty for this. NO ONE can be prepared for what happened. Do people expect armed guards to stand at the doors of learning centers? I also hope this shooting does not hurt the schools reputation as one of the best in the world also. Good luck with the following days, our prayers are with you.

Kids don't need to be afraid of guns like you are. If they are taught how to use a gun safely you can leave a loaded gun in plain view and not have to worry....(disregarding friends playing over) but no kids are only taught that if you touch a gun everyone you love will die.

And I for one am happy your friend died it's better for the gene pool. How do you reason out that "okay my girl friend broke up with me, so i can get her back by shooting myself in the stomach she won't think I'm crasy or anything and she'll come running back" your friend was stupid and paid the price.

Now if another one of the students had a gun there may not have been 33 deaths. As much you may think this is cold and wrong it's not false.

And it is my belief that the 'founding fathers' intended guns to always be legal to own ... well quote time

"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people." -- V

[SmoothCriminal]

Kids don't need to be afraid of guns like you are. If they are taught how to use a gun safely you can leave a loaded gun in plain view and not have to worry....(disregarding friends playing over) but no kids are only taught that if you touch a gun everyone you love will die.

And I for one am happy your friend died it's better for the gene pool. How do you reason out that "okay my girl friend broke up with me, so i can get her back by shooting myself in the stomach she won't think I'm crasy or anything and she'll come running back" your friend was stupid and paid the price.

Now if another one of the students had a gun there may not have been 33 deaths. As much you may think this is cold and wrong it's not false.

And it is my belief that the 'founding fathers' intended guns to always be legal to own ... well quote time

"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people." -- V

You are a true asshole Someoneelse.

And I dont think we should get into what might have happened if someone else had a gun in that room, it is tragic either way. Having easy access to weapons does make it easy for one person to lose his tempor and resort to violent actions.

In any case, I don't think this is one guy that lost his tempor, he obviously was very trouble and planned it out.

[SomeoneE1se]

You are a true asshole Someoneelse.

you say this like it's a bad thing... and I tend to see my self as more of a realist. you don't want stupid people reproducing do you?

And I dont think we should get into what might have happened if someone else had a gun in that room,..

why not? and it's school not room.

Having easy access to weapons does make it easy for one person to lose his tempor and resort to violent actions.

yes but knife would work just as well if it's from losing your temper.

[moonlit]

Hey, woah, this thread's getting way outta line. Sure, it's a tragedy, emotions are high, butyou all need to chill the fuck out. Saying you're glad someone died isn't fair to anyone. This thread is on the verge of being locked. You wanna continue discussing it? Then chill. Get back on topic and have some respect.

[Rab]

By your little joke, I guess that the people in Iraq are then playing Counter Strike and suicide bombings are just fun little games people play...

No respawns :(

[digip]

By your little joke, I guess that the people in Iraq are then playing Counter Strike and suicide bombings are just fun little games people play...

No respawns :(

Doesn't even deserve a response...

Maybe this thread should be /locked

[Cosmo]

From what I hear from the news, this kid had a vendetta against what he called "rich kids." He hated people who were better off than him and was planning this for a while. He wrapped chains around the doors of the building so no one could escape. No matter what weapon he used, this event would have still happened.

This was a horrific event, and instead of bitching and moaning over whether or not gun laws should be tighter, we should be giving our condolences to those who have experienced this event, or had loved ones at Virginia Tech.

This thread is just waaay too off topic.

!vote lock

[moonlit]

Locked by request (digip, cosmo).