l0gic Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 I find myself coming to that bittersweet realization that every true techy knows all too well; it's time to build a new box! =D However, in catching up on the latest technologies, an idea came to me. Instead of tackling the job myself, why not open it to an entire technical community? I think it would be an interesting experiment to see if the Hak.5 community, given ample time and a respectable budget to work with, can collectively research and configure a quality workstation. Let me begin by presenting the list of requirements I came up with before I began my research: Linux - The end product will run Gentoo Linux (kernel 2.6), so Linux-supported hardware is crucial. Fortunately, this isn't nearly as big a hassle it was in the past, as Linux hardware support has improved greatly over the last several years. Dual-core - It's obvious that multi-core processors have started the next generation of CPU's, and are essential for multitasking applications. Redundant storage - I've always found storage to be a balancing act of speed, redundancy, and cost. I like to build a system's disk storage in two logical components: system partition(s) and archive partition(s). Speed is essential for the former, and redundancy for the latter; however, these elements should of course be combined wherever possible. Video - As a Linux system, there isn't an overwhelming need for quality gaming performance. A solid, economic graphics processor is preferable (again, Linux support is key here). Dual displays - I'm including two identical 19" (or higher) monitors in the overall system quote. Case - Aluminum is the material of choice. I'd also like to look into water cooling. Aesthetics - Black goes with everything. =) And now for the bottom line: I've allocated a budget of around $2,000, although I'm willing to go a bit beyond that if the system proves to be truly kick-ass. If this thread ends up producing a practical system configuration that meets all the criteria, I'll purchase the components and post a photo journal of the build process. Please post any configurations or suggestions you'd like to add. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgia_tech_swagger Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Linux - The end product will run Gentoo Linux (kernel 2.6), so Linux-supported hardware is crucial. Fortunately, this isn't nearly as big a hassle it was in the past, as Linux hardware support has improved greatly over the last several years. Just look around on Newegg. A good rule to go buy is look at hardware that has alot of reviews. Somebody posts whether or not motherboard x works in Linux and how well all the time. Beware the SFF motherboard, the current lineup on Newegg is an anti-Linux mine field. Dual-core - It's obvious that multi-core processors have started the next generation of CPU's, and are essential for multitasking applications. Socket 939 Opteron ftw. Redundant storage - I've always found storage to be a balancing act of speed, redundancy, and cost. I like to build a system's disk storage in two logical components: system partition(s) and archive partition(s). Speed is essential for the former, and redundancy for the latter; however, these elements should of course be combined wherever possible. AFAIK, you cannot mix and match RAID like you're suggesting here. Budget RAIDs: RAID 1 (mirrored) --- fast read, redudancy, no speed increase on write RAID 0 (striped, aka I-Dont-Need-No-Stinkin-Backup!) --- fast read, fast write, no redundancy Burn money burn! RAID 10 (striped mirrors, or a RAID 1 of two RAID 0s) --- fast read, fast write, redundancy The rest of the RAIDS are impratical or even more costly than these, and I will leave it to you if you are so inclined, but the only other RAID that's even somewhat practical is RAID 5. Video - As a Linux system, there isn't an overwhelming need for quality gaming performance. A solid, economic graphics processor is preferable (again, Linux support is key here).Dual displays - I'm including two identical 19" (or higher) monitors in the overall system quote. nVidia for the win. Case - Aluminum is the material of choice. I'd also like to look into water cooling. Browse Newegg for the case. I strongly recommend AGAINST water cooling. If you carefully design your case, and get a big honkin' Zalman CNPS 100% copper series heatsink, you'll be good. With water cooling you're looking at the potential for leaks... kinks that kill waterflow... as well as having to go WAY out of your way to prevent algae growth which would clog the waterblocks and pump... causing icky overheating. Try to maintain positive air pressure in your case (more air being blown in than sucked out) ... this makes the air stir more in your case, lessens dust build up, and makes it run slightly cooler. And now for the bottom line: I've allocated a budget of around $2,000, although I'm willing to go a bit beyond that if the system proves to be truly kick-ass. I would go configure a beast on Newegg w/ that budget, but I'm too lazy and don't know your taste in cases. You could build a beastly Linux box for $1,000 .. much less 2. Footnotes: - Burn in hell all things ATI. Do not support ATI by buying any product that contains hardware from them if this is a Linux box. - Newegg ftw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooper Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 I would suggest that you split this up. Get one machine that is a kick-ass desktop, and another one that's a great storage box. See if you can upgrade your current machine to one of the two, and spend your remaining budget on getting a new machine and one of those decent, cheap Asus gigabit switches. CPU is a lot more important on a desktop machine than a server. You, for some reason, omitted memory entirely. Same thing with MoBo. A server would like PCI-X slots and/or a good number of PCI-Express slots. A desktop just needs 1 PCI-Express slot for the videocard. Two if you want to get excessive in the Gaming Rig area. Given your description, go with the fastest _fanless_ NVidia solution. These tend to be budget cards that will do just fine anywhere outside of games, and can be reused when you want to build a totally silent system (trust me, that time will come). Get a WD Raptor for the desktop, and a bunch of Maxtor drives for the server. You _don't_ need a RAID-capable card. Go with Software RAID and a regular IO card. Also note that while Linux hardware support is improving all the time, SATA support isn't that far just yet. I'm having a WORLD of trouble getting my RAID5 array stable under Linux. It might be the WD drives (as they weren't their RAID Edition drives) but to give you an idea, a new framework for better error handling is going into 2.6.18 sometime this summer. This will constitute a MASSIVE improvement over what they're doing now (see: http://lwn.net/Articles/183234/). Play it safe and stick with PATA, or wait a little longer. Aluminum cases are for show. Keep that in mind when you decide where to spend your money. They weigh less and contribute close to nothing to the cooling of the machine, yet costs about twice as much as a metal case. Considering you like the case black, who's to know it's not a metal case without lifting it? I also think that 2000 bucks isn't going to cut it. Find 2 19" monitors, a dual-out NVidia card and the processor you want to use and see what you have left. My guess is that isn't very much at all. And you still need to get the harddisks which will probably average $100 a pop, another $100 or so for a decent IO card for them, possibly a new power supply, Mobo, case... I think you'll want to reduce your requirements. For starters, I'd say enlighten us about what you want to DO with the machine, and how you feel that leads to the requirements you've posted. You'll probably get some fascinating responses that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 AFAIK, you cannot mix and match RAID like you're suggesting here.Budget RAIDs: RAID 1 (mirrored) --- fast read, redudancy, no speed increase on write RAID 0 (striped, aka I-Dont-Need-No-Stinkin-Backup!) --- fast read, fast write, no redundancy Burn money burn! RAID 10 (striped mirrors, or a RAID 1 of two RAID 0s) --- fast read, fast write, redundancy The rest of the RAIDS are impratical or even more costly than these, and I will leave it to you if you are so inclined, but the only other RAID that's even somewhat practical is RAID 5. What do you mean you can't mix and match RAID? My RocketRAID 2320 can support multiple arrays of different types simulatanously, although I've no idea how that affects the performance since I just run 1 RAID 5 array. For redundancy I would say RAID 5 is the best solution, RAID 1 has no option for expandability. RAID 5 gives you decent read performance, but write performance is reduced (usually) since it has to calculate parity data. RAID 6 could also be OK if you really can't take any chances with losing the data, but the cards are more expensive and you lose another drive's worth of space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Aluminum cases are for show. Keep that in mind when you decide where to spend your money. They weigh less and contribute close to nothing to the cooling of the machine, yet costs about twice as much as a metal case. Considering you like the case black, who's to know it's not a metal case without lifting it? Aluminium isn't a metal? What is it then? A type of cork? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingwray Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Aluminum cases are for show. Keep that in mind when you decide where to spend your money. They weigh less and contribute close to nothing to the cooling of the machine, yet costs about twice as much as a metal case. Considering you like the case black, who's to know it's not a metal case without lifting it? Aluminum cases are for show because generally they can be finished nicer than steel. The contribute just as much towards cooling as steel does, if not more, because you may notice that most cheap heatsinks are silver and aluminium, Zalman sometimes make heatsinks with both copper and aluminium in it. I would buy an aluminium case simply because it was lighter and I don't think they cost twice as much all the time, you often get more features for your money such as removable motherboard tray which makes like a lot easier when building the computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metatron Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 If you really wanted a case that would help with cooling you would make it out of gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparda Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 The best case cooling solution is to have no case at all then have a big room fan constantly blowing your stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKo Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 http://www.peteredge.orcon.net.nz/casepics.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metatron Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 http://www.peteredge.orcon.net.nz/casepics.htm LOL, sweet case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgia_tech_swagger Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 What do you mean you can't mix and match RAID? My RocketRAID 2320 can support multiple arrays of different types simulatanously, although I've no idea how that affects the performance since I just run 1 RAID 5 array. For redundancy I would say RAID 5 is the best solution, RAID 1 has no option for expandability. RAID 5 gives you decent read performance, but write performance is reduced (usually) since it has to calculate parity data. RAID 6 could also be OK if you really can't take any chances with losing the data, but the cards are more expensive and you lose another drive's worth of space. Like so: /dev/hda1 /dev/hdb1 = /dev/md0, RAID 1 --- Mount Point: / /dev/hda2 /dev/hdb2 = /dev/md1, RAID 0 --- Mount Point: /mnt/storage You can't mix and match RAID on the same set of drives, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Oh right, not on the same set of drives as far as I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadaender Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 http://www.peteredge.orcon.net.nz/casepics.htm Damn, good idea but a noisy one at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l0gic Posted June 16, 2006 Author Share Posted June 16, 2006 The case isn't a big deal, as some of you have pointed out. The primary sticking point here is deciding which cpu/mobo/memory set to go with. So far I count one vote for a 939 Opteron. Other possibilities for this socket are an Athlon 64 or 64 FX. However, is now the time to move to AMD's new AM2 socket, which would require DDR2? Or are there any votes for an Intel solution? I like Cooper's suggestion of offloading storage capability to some sort of server -- perhaps an NAS? He also correctly pointed out that I neglected to mention memory. Although I can't decide on the type until I decide on the CPU, I think 2GB (2x1GB) would be ideal. =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKo Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Wait until Conroe chips start comming out.... then compare them to AMD's offerings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W4RP3D Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 yer wait a month or two, http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2800 If theses guys are right processer prices will really fall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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