US Citizens to Require Clearance to Leave the Country

[Garda]

http://sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&a...le&sid=3023

We're All Prisoners, Now: US Citizens to be Required ''Clearance'' to Leave USA

International Politics October 26, 2006

Forget no-fly lists. If Uncle Sam gets its way, beginning on Jan. 14,

2007, we'll all be on no-fly lists, unless the government gives us

permission to leave-or re-enter-the United States.

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security (HSA) has proposed that all

airlines, cruise lines-even fishing boats-be required to obtain

clearance for each passenger they propose taking into or out of the

United States.

It doesn't matter if you have a U.S. Passport - a "travel document"

that now, absent a court order to the contrary, gives you a virtually

unqualified right to enter or leave the United States, any time you

want. When the DHS system comes into effect next January, if the

agency says "no" to a clearance request, or doesn't answer the

request at all, you won't be permitted to enter-or leave-the United

States.

Consider what might happen if you're a U.S. passport holder on

assignment in a country like Saudi Arabia. Your visa is about to

expire, so you board your flight back to the United States. But wait!

You can't get on, because you don't have permission from the HSA.

Saudi immigration officials are on hand to escort you to a squalid

detention center, where you and others who are now effectively

"stateless persons" are detained, potentially indefinitely, until

their immigration status is sorted out.

Why might the HSA deny you permission to leave-or enter-the United

States? No one knows, because the entire clearance procedure would be

an administrative determination made secretly, with no right of

appeal. Naturally, the decision would be made without a warrant,

without probable cause and without even any particular degree of

suspicion. Basically, if the HSA decides it doesn't like you, you're

a prisoner - either outside, or inside, the United States, whether or

not you hold a U.S. passport.

The U.S. Supreme Court has long recognized there is a constitutional

right to travel internationally. Indeed, it has declared that the

right to travel is "a virtually unconditional personal right." The

United States has also signed treaties guaranteeing "freedom of

travel." So if these regulations do go into effect, you can expect a

lengthy court battle, both nationally and internationally.

Think this can't happen? Think again. It's ALREADY happening. Earlier

this year, HSA forbade airlines from transporting an 18-year-old a

native-born U.S. citizen, back to the United States. The prohibition

lasted nearly six months until it was finally lifted a few weeks ago.

Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union are two countries in recent history

that didn't allow their citizens to travel abroad without permission.

If these regulations go into effect, you can add the United States to

this list.

For more information on this proposed regulation, see http://hasbrouck.org/IDP/IDP-APIS-comments.pdf.

Now i'm not really sure about the site because they seem to be to be a little bit of a bunch of crazy left wing pinkos.

Fucking seriously, not 1 person in all of the United States has read 1984.

This is exactly the crap that the US was bitching to the commies about when they wouldn't let any of their citizens to leave the eastern block to go over to the west.

How is it possible for 300million people to all be so complicit when it comes to NSA wiretaps, the abolishment of habius corpus, their nation practicing torture and also outsourcing it. What is wrong with the US.

I so am glad to be from au

[VaKo]

Because america is rich, and most of them seem pretty dumb. The mid-term campaign adverts are like kids arguing.

[Jigga-Zula]

umm... I don't know if you've ever heard this or not, but the vast majority of Americans don't approve of our current administration. I'm also pretty sure that most people here don't agree with wiretapping, abolishment of habeas corpus, or torture.

Oh and btw I think 1984 is taught in most highschool english classes. At least it was in mine.

[cooper]

When you have government institutions with this much political clout entertain ideas like this to the point that they're asking legislators to give them the go-ahead, something's wrong.

When you need the media to balk at the concept because nobody else seems to give a shit, you're in trouble.

When your elected representatives (and I'm not talking Bush here. Well, maybe ALSO Bush) decide to do away with 'trivial' things like Habeus Corpus, you're fucked.

Just what does it take to get an American off his lazy ass and start to protest some of the actions their government is taking? This stuff has been going on for SO long now.

WAKE UP!

[VaKo]

umm... I don't know if you've ever heard this or not, but the vast majority of Americans don't approve of our current administration. I'm also pretty sure that most people here don't agree with wiretapping, abolishment of habeas corpus, or torture.

Yeah, you keep saying that, but nothing ever seems to be done about it. Your president seems to make the law up as he goes along and your congress and senate make the mafia look like a legitimate poster child for the anti-corruption squad. For a country with a massive amount of guns you seem fairly under the thumb.

[manuel]

umm... I don't know if you've ever heard this or not, but the vast majority of Americans don't approve of our current administration. I'm also pretty sure that most people here don't agree with wiretapping, abolishment of habeas corpus, or torture.

Yeah, you keep saying that, but nothing ever seems to be done about it. Your president seems to make the law up as he goes along and your congress and senate make the mafia look like a legitimate poster child for the anti-corruption squad. For a country with a massive amount of guns you seem fairly under the thumb.

I agree with you there VaKo, although im not sure I wanna admint that I am an American.

While it is true that many people disagree with what our government does, most do not do anything about it. Part of it is that protests are not effective anymore. part of it is that if you protest against the government they same to make you disappear. Part of it is the media. They only glorify the bad crap. The other part is that there seems to be many people who are "too busy" to be bothered with things like this and in the mean time do nothing but let it all slip by.

At least in the 1970's many groups protested and showed what they thought.

What ever happened to those people and their concepts?

[VaKo]

As a British person, the funny thing about America from my POV is that its a terrorist state, and has been since July 4, 1776. Please, to any American who reads this, DO NOT FORGET WHAT YOU FOUGHT AND DIED FOR 230 YEARS AGO. Don't fuck it up.

[SomeoneE1se]

so you think we should still be under British control?

[Jigga-Zula]

Yeah, you keep saying that, but nothing ever seems to be done about it. Your president seems to make the law up as he goes along and your congress and senate make the mafia look like a legitimate poster child for the anti-corruption squad. For a country with a massive amount of guns you seem fairly under the thumb.

Ya that's true we don't do anything. I think one reason why is people that create protests are just seen as wacko-hippy-wannabe's. I mean even if it's for a good cause I know I still see them as being a few colors short of a box of crayons. And I just keep telling myself "meh it'll all be over in '08" so yes I guess I am too lazy.

[VaKo]

so you think we should still be under British control?

No, that wasn't the point. The point is that as americans, you should think very carefully about insurgents and terrorists being evil as your country was founded by them.

[LeetNoob]

Being both American and British (I hold dual citizenship), I can see issues from both inside and outside, and here's how I see the real crux of the problem:

The Constitution says you have the right to protest and a redress of grievances. It says nothing about anyone listening to them. You, Americans, have no choice and no recourse other than to vote the bastards out - but you can only do so at set intervals. In the interim, politicians have free rein to do whatever they like.

Bush is in office, and there's not a thing anyone can do about it. You can't vote him out, you can't impeach him since congressional Democrats don't have the numbers on their side, and his powerbase - the NSA, Homeland Security, etc - are completely unaccountable to anyone but him.

OK, so what happens now?

What needs to happen, sorry to say, is nothing short of a Revolution. A rebellion against tyranny. It's been done before, so there is a precedent. It's even been endorsed in either the Constitution or Declaration, can't remember which. It'll never happen, of course, but scrap the Constitution as written, and rewrite it such that the people have more power because right now, you have none. Not anymore. It's an 18th century document, written for a small, agricultural country with no standing army. It's not a holy relic written in stone, and it's not heresy to change it.

Over here in the UK, Tony Blair is an elected official, but not by a national vote. He's an MP for a constituency in Country Durham, and as such, answerable to them. He's PM because he's the Labour Party leader, and labour won the general elections. If his constituency voted him out, we'd get a new PM. Period. Every secretary of state is an elected MP - defence, education, Home Office, Foreign Office - all of them. Of course they're appointed to the post, but they had to be chosen by the people in the first place. They screw up, they're removed or resign. End of story. Make THAT system the basis for government, and I guarantee you'll see a difference.

The only thing that can be done is for everyone who gives a damn and trying to make a difference to unite under one banner. Fragmented groups all shouting at the same time are useless. One group, willing to take chances, one manifesto to which everyone agrees and can subscribe, all yelling "we want our country back". Someone will have to listen then. Strike. Passive resistance. It's the 60's again, and you're fighting for your civil rights. The iron curtain is also dropping. AGAIN.

Someone should have been suspicious long ago. What other president in history ever referred to it as the "Homeland". Sounds like "Motherland" and "Fatherland", doesn't it?

Now you know why I'm over here.

[cooper]

you can't impeach him since congressional Democrats don't have the numbers on their side

See, and here's the kicker:

That shouldn't matter

What's the use of a Senate or a Congress if all the Republicans go 'The Republican Way' and all the Democrats go 'The Democrat Way'?

Your govermnent is trying its best to remake your precious country into Nazi germany only the muslims are now what the jews were back then. Your elected representative is your elected representative. He should represent YOU first, and the party line second. You can try to blame your government for all the troubles, but in the end they're YOUR responsibility. They are there representing YOU, doing what YOU supposedly want. When they stop doing that, you let them know about it. Publicly. Loudly. With a big fat chunk of local media around. And if that individual wants to have even a hope of getting re-elected, he would listen to you.

THAT is democracy.

[Rab]

i thought i already did need clearance to come to the US anyway?

[LeetNoob]

you can't impeach him since congressional Democrats don't have the numbers on their side

See, and here's the kicker:

That shouldn't matter

Sadly, though, it's built into Federal law. 2/3rds of the House, Majority in the Senate. But you're right about "toeing the party line". Then again, when was the last time a representative of the people actually represented the people?

Billy Connely once said "the desire to become a politician should automatically bar you from ever being one." We can see why.