Boarder investigation, UPS

[qLabs]

So my pineapple was stopped at the border, a fee of $35 was tacked on to the price. The UPS guy stops long enough for the birds to fly off then leaves. Now I have to go into the city and pick this thing up with my Government ID.

What kind of position do you think I feel I am in right now ?

Just a note, Model railroad electronics gains no fee's at the boarder.

USPS, delivers to my Canadian doorstep, often with no stop at the boarder. I have used this system for a long time. Never have I had a good experience with UPS.

Do you think you could email me, an alternative to this unbelievable lack of personal privacy and security ?

I am so sorry to have ever trusted HAK5.

Edited November 2, 2013 by qLabs

[Sebkinne]

qLabs,

Hak5 has nothing to do with customs. If a package is stopped, it is stopped. It depends on the border of that specific country. If you know that USPS works, you could have chosen that at checkout AFAIK.

What lack of personal privacy are you speaking of? What lack of security? I don't see how this has anything to do with Hak5.

If customs decides to inspects a package at a border, it has nothing to do with the sender. They aren't invading your privacy. They aren't putting your security at risk either.

In the end, if you have an issue with your countries customs, complain to them (which will most likely fall on dead ears) Or in the future choose a different shipping method.

Best Regards,

Sebkinne

Edit: I should note. If you were suggesting to label the WiFi Pineapple MKV as "Model Railroad Electronics" for customs, you should think about what you are doing. Hak5 will definitely not do that as it can have legal consequences.

So my pineapple was stopped at the border, a fee of $35 was tacked on to the price. The UPS guy stops long enough for the birds to fly off then leaves. Now I have to go into the city and pick this thing up with my Government ID.

What kind of position do you think I feel I am in right now ?

Just a note, Model railroad electronics gains no fee's at the boarder.

USPS, delivers to my Canadian doorstep, often with no stop at the boarder. I have used this system for a long time. Never have I had a good experience with UPS.

Do you think you could email me, an alternative to this unbelievable lack of personal privacy and security ?

I am so sorry to have ever trusted HAK5.

[Some Guy]

So my pineapple was stopped at the border, a fee of $35 was tacked on to the price. The UPS guy stops long enough for the birds to fly off then leaves. Now I have to go into the city and pick this thing up with my Government ID.

What kind of position do you think I feel I am in right now ?

Just a note, Model railroad electronics gains no fee's at the boarder.

USPS, delivers to my Canadian doorstep, often with no stop at the boarder. I have used this system for a long time. Never have I had a good experience with UPS.

Do you think you could email me, an alternative to this unbelievable lack of personal privacy and security ?

I am so sorry to have ever trusted HAK5.

Lol, whenever you import something from another country, it always has to be declared at Customs. That's the law. You're not allowed to just smuggle anything you want across international borders. It's a pretty big stretch to call this an "unbelievable lack of personal privacy and security." Countries have inspected goods crossing their borders for about as long as borders have existed, so it seems pretty believable to me.

You have to pay GST on all imports. UPS is required to collect the GST and hand it over to the Canadian government. Again, that's the law.

UPS always adds an additional "brokerage fee" rip-off of their own, in addition to the GST. I agree, that does suck. But it should be no suprise if you've imported using UPS before.

Shipments that are imported via USPS + Canada Post should generally have GST due upon arrival. Usually when they don't, it's because USPS makes it relatively easy for the sender to fill out the Customs paperwork inadequately. Smaller purchases can slip through the cracks and end up with no fees, due to incorrect or falsified paperwork. E.g. incorrect value declared, or marked as a gift or sample when it is not. When this happens, you are breaking the law as an importer. Technically there is a procedure that you're supposed to follow to correct the paperwork errors when this happens. If you import a suspicious number of "gifts" from other countries, expect the CBSA to investigate you for fraud.

Hak5 didn't break your trust. You were trusting in your own ignorance. That's what bit you.

[Hibby]

On top of this, suggesting that hak5 should break your local laws to get a pineapple to you is somewhat unnecessary.

The device itself is for personal research, development and experimentation on the 2.4GHz ISM RF band using common technologies, and for learning about common IP technologies as well. There's no need to break the law to get such a tool, and there's no reason that you would have to go to such great lengths to hide the tool.

I've imported millions of dollars of high power, obscure, custom RF equipment and analysers into many countries around the world. What you've undergone is a minor inconvenience.

Being interviewed by customs, have your personal purchases and company purchases reviewed down to the penny with the accusation of purposefully importing equipment under the wrong harmonised tax codes and not properly declaring all goods on international packing lists is an invasion of personal privacy. It's also terrifying.

By suggesting, on a public forum, that you do feel the need to hide things from customs, break the law to import things, you've done this in the past and having a potentially personally identifying image as your avatar, you've probably done more damage to yourself in future than a knowledgeless customs officer saying "oh, it's one of those router-modem thingamabobs, $35 tax please".

Let's just be a little bit sensible and not get upset at hak5 for not breaking your local laws in the way you like to do, or for not giving you what you feel is an appropriate heads up on your local import laws.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Hibby

[Mr-Protocol]

Hehe, I see you used some of our discussion :)

[Darren Kitchen]

I have a meeting with our UPS rep this week because I'm completely appalled by their additional fees. I'm also looking into DHL and other carriers. I agree that in many cases USPS is the best carrier, albeit not the fastest.

As for customs, as others have noted, we have to play by the rules. Perhaps A discount may be applied to the unit cost, perhaps the customer asks for it as a gift in the notes section at checkout, but never will it say "model railroad parts" or otherwise.

Nations have as much right to inspect parcels entering their borders are you have the right to inspect packets entering your network.

[qLabs]

Thank you Darren, this problem is world wide. And I understand this may have not been on your raider. Also to the Admin, USPS was not on my page otherwise I would have used it, check for YOURSELF. I preffer the slow and steady aproach of USPS.

As a legitimate geek who also is a model railroader and has used USPS for ALL shipping over the years, the electronics exemption is true and law in the USA. Ask a model railroader California is the epicenter of the hobby BTW. Also the pineapple breaks into networks right ? The very control process of controlling model trains is a network too (DCC look it up).
Tell me why the pineapple couldn't use this as a shipping note, to avoid costs and personal incrimination by uninformed government personal?

Some people just like to talk opinions over knowing first. I forgive your need to raise your post count, I just don't respect, your wasted time.

Mr IRC OP. Are you saying law enforcement would take your explanation at face value? Or would they assume from the name HAK5 its purpose?

Edited November 3, 2013 by qLabs

[qLabs]

If you need a use case. I lost my locomotive mac address. Oh how do i get it ? Use a little led blinker with moris code responses ? No I got a MkV and found out all the traffic on my network, all the info I needed.

Mr Admin, you also speak before you know the facts IMO.

[Foxtrot]

I don't understand what trains have to do with it. But whatever...

...

Tell me why the pineapple couldn't use this as a shipping note, to avoid costs and personal incrimination by uninformed government personal?

...

Are you asking why the pineapple couldnt be sent to you labling it self as a train set?

EDIT : As for the extra price you had to pay, many many others did too, because thats what happens to Wireless Routers.

On the UPS Invoice and Box you recieve the item is a WiFi Router, which is true, saying that its something else would be illegal, i would think.

Wireless Equipment has extra tax on it for a reason unknown to me, As I found out when i was calculating whatever this custom UPS charge was, a website I used (which I forget, applogies) stated that Wireless Routers and Recievers recieve more tax.

My guess is thats just the way the cookie crumbles.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Foxtrot

[tom564]

If you need a use case. I lost my locomotive mac address. Oh how do i get it ? Use a little led blinker with moris code responses ? No I got a MkV and found out all the traffic on my network, all the info I needed.

Mr Admin, you also speak before you know the facts IMO.

By that logic because i can use the pineapple for the flashy lights it can be marked as a lamp.... Or declare it as fruit as it is called a pineapple.

Just because you use it for a specific purpose does not change the fact of what the device is, the pineapple is a wireless router whether you like it or not. The HAK shop do as much as they can to reduce the amount of tax payable but as mentioned they can't wrongfully declare orders or mark them as gifts or questions will be asked. All of this was made clear if you read the shipping policy's.

Yes it does suck to have to pay taxes on imported goods but you have to deal with it like everyone else, I am not sure why you would be concerned about customs knowing what the device is anyway unless you plan illegitimate actions as they are perfectly legal to have and FCC registered and anyway by posting to a public forum with a photo i assume to be of yourself is more likely to have made a paper trail than importing one wireless router.

But i agree UPS has some shady practices it should in no way cost over $10 for a brokerage fee, as that should be included in the international shipping costs.

[Mr-Protocol]

Locked to avoid further flame.

Shipping concerns are being looked into.