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newbi3
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This goes back to Darren's rant a few weeks ago about people knowing that you know more then the average person about computers. Today I was suspended for "hacking" into teachers facebook accounts, breaking into students accounts and deleting their documents, and the next thing they will tag on me is a virus that has been going around the county. Why did they do this? Because I got a 100% on my A+ cert and I am working on my Linux+ so therefore a teacher calls the administration and says that specifically I am the one doing this. All I was doing at that time was my algebra. Now they are doing an investigation to see "how much damage I caused" and the length of my suspension will be based on that. They have no evidence that I did anything except for the fact that my laptop has a hak5 sticker on it and I had a wifi pineapple (that was turned off) in my laptop bag. It pissed me off so much when the dean searched me for "illegal" stuff and pulled out my laptop saw the sticker and said "that's interesting". Just because I have a sticker that has the word "hack" on it all of the sudden I am a criminal. Not only that I carry around about 10 different Linux distros on DVDs and she pulled them out and was like "Did you steal all of this?" Seriously what the hell! I shouldn't be punished by people who clearly are not at all able to comprehend what they are dealing with! The only reason why I had the pineapple with me is to give me a project for writing some bash scripts (which is a major part of my certification) so I'm not just sitting down writing pointless "hello world"s all day. Because I am only 17 she had to call my dad and while on the phone with me she said "At least he will learn from his punishment after all thats what school is for". Well shit on me, I was under the impression that school was for educational purposes. Parents are the ones who she be teaching discipline. And after accusing me of every problem that they have computer wise she told me "why don't you have a job doing this already? You know what you are doing". The worst part about this is how the hell are you supposed to explain how a pineapple works? You can't tell them that "oh well it just tricks your computer into connecting to it" because that translates to them "Once you turn on your computer I have all of your files, tax records, social security number, bank account, facebook, everything." It's not right to have people who don't understand what the hell is going to be the ones who make the decisions. Who else relates to this? This is a bunch of crap and I feel bad for who ever else this happens to.

Thank God they didn't find the throwing start lantap that I had in bag that would have ended even worse.

(I go to a tech school thats why I'm 17 and have my A+ and what not)

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I haven't posted in a while on these forums, but I still get the email updates. When this hit my inbox, I had to reply... Do you live in the USA? If so, there are some major violations on your school's part. I know this from being very familiar with law enforcement officials. A principal or teacher can never search your person. That is your private property and they conducted an unlawful search and seizure. The only time this does not apply is when you are under accusation of carrying something that endangers the physical lives of those in the school(a gun, bomb, etc.). Your car is also off-limits, even if parked on school property(of course, anything that can be seen in plain sight from outside the car can be used for suspicion . The only thing school officials have the ability to touch is a school locker, which is school property.

Aside from that, everything done is against common sense as well as the law. A school can't detain a student just because they know he/she used drugs, and found drugs on campus. Just because you know a lot about computers doesn't mean you hacked school and personal accounts. Just because you are of middle east descent does not mean you were the cause of a terrorist attack. In another relation, you cannot arrest somebody for owning lock picks(in most communities) just because it gives them the ability to break into a house or car.

I have gone through similar issues in high school(though not to the degree you are describing). Whenever anything happened at school, I was always got a call "Michael... what did you do to this?" People knew I knew a lot about computers and networking, but I have never done anything because 1. I would be the prime suspect anyways, and 2. Public school = federal offense. Yet, people blamed me anyways. Never it has lead to disciplinary action in my case, but if I was in your shoes, I would contact the press, both physical media and online. Tweeting to the right people can help you out as well. Shoot an email to someone in the EFF. A site like gizmodo.com loves to feature a story like this and they would start hounding school officials for comments. Finally, I'd get a lawyer involved. You were discriminated against, unlawfully detained, unlawfully searched, and withheld from school because of it. Again, the EFF would be of help finding a lawyer who understands what a pineapple is, etc. It seems to me that if you really want to fight this, you could make college tuition out of it. They owe you at least that much.

As for detaining you because of the hak5 sticker on your laptop because of the word "hack:" It is people like this who I wish I could "hack" their heads off with something slow and painful, over the course of 6 or 7 hours.

Of course, if you did do all of those alleged things, well... that was pretty dumb... :P but without probable cause the above still applies.

The above is all opinion based advice and should not be taken as official legal council.

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That sucks ass. Seriously, I hate uneducated, misinformed, stereotypical bureaucratic pencil pushing assholes who have no fucking clue what the hell they are talking about. Get a lawyer, and SUE the shit out of the school, the teacher, principal, and the district, AND get the local news involved. Seriously. Fuck that shit. Contact the EFF and try to find a sponsor who will be willing to support your case. Especially, if you truly had nothing to do with anything.

This whole self censorship thing is one of the things that pisses me off about the term hacker and what it means in the first place. Know ho wmany dirty looks I get for my "I Hack Charities" shirt? I don't care what people think of me, and when people try giving me shit about the shirt, I make damn sure know what its about, and often get them to go the the site.

Not sure where you live or what the town is like where you are from, but I hope your parents are at least tech savvy enough and know you did nothing wrong and support you 100% and have your back. Seriously, take this as a lesson, not from the teacher, but from yourself on what you've learned on your own, but also, the community at large. Make damn sure you put everything into clear, layman's terms, that even the most douche baggiest of judges and prosecutors can understand and fight this thing tooth and nail as far as you need to go.

Edited by digip
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The reason why they were able to search my laptop bag was because (and this is the biggest bullshit ever) they "suspected" I had illegal marterials on me. Which in this case would be the pineapple. She saw an antena poking out of the case I had it in when I put it in my bag and because what I supposedly did was Illegal and she knows nothing she was able to pull that card out on me. And here is where it gets kind of sketchy with sueing. Durring my network supports class I demonstrated to 3 people including my teacher what what I have written so far for the pineapple and what it can do. So the school has no solid case but at one point I did have karma and the jammer enabled which could have effected "school property". That and my parents would flip shit if I tried to get a lawsuit against the school they are the what ever the person is charge says goes kind of people. I've explained everything to them doesn't matter. As soon as the school goes further with this investigation and actually tries to login to my pineapple I will sue the shit out of them. They have no warrent or right to get access to what ever is on there. What is on there is my personal and private stuff.

Let me add to this that the only thing I did when demonstrating the pineapple was show how karma works, DNS spoof my friend to a page that said "8==D" and show how deauthing works. I never even plugged the pineapple into the network. Everything was done only on the pineapple it self.

Edited by newbi3
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I'd say contact the EFF and do this on your own if your own parents won't even back you. Get a sponsor from the EFF and if need be, take it to the media. if they want to try you as an adult, get youself emancipated too, if your parents won't back you. Shitty thing to say, but you could be facing charges that will follow you the rest of your life if found guilty of anything substantial, which risks your future education after high school, college, and work possibilities and limits your employment opportunities. Thats a lot to have to worry about for a high school kid who hasn't even had the chance to make it on his own yet. No disrespect to your parents, but you need to school them and get them up to speed, and make your case to get them to back you. I don't want to cause problems for you and your own parents, but this is one time where they should have some faith in their kid and be there for you.

Gawker is a good idea as mentioned, but so is wired, cnet, and regular television news and radio stations. whatever you do, don't give them anything, including passwords. Remember, you have the right to remain silent too, and that can be your best card played when they start trying to get tough with you, tell them you are advised by your lawyer not to speak without his/her presence, even if you don't have one yet. The job is on them to prove you guilty, even though we live in different times today, for the most part, you are still innocent until proven guilty. That is of course unless the court you end up in has gold trim on the flag, then your pretty much screwed, as thats a court trying you under admiral law, or martial law, and not constitutional law. More or less in those cases, you're guilty until proven innocent. Get a lawyer. We're not lawyers, so anything we say is still pretty much hear say, but contact https://www.eff.org/ at least and find out what your options are. If you are innocent, don't give up without a fight!

Edited by digip
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I'd say contact the EFF and do this on your own if your own parents won't even back you. Get a sponsor from the EFF and if need be, take it to the media. if they want to try you as an adult, get youself emancipated too, if your parents won't back you. Shitty thing to say, but you could be facing charges that will follow you the rest of your life if found guilty of anything substantial, which risks your future education after high school, college, and work possibilities and limits your employment opportunities. Thats a lot to have to worry about for a high school kid who hasn't even had the chance to make it on his own yet. No disrespect to your parents, but you need to school them and get them up to speed, and make your case to get them to back you. I don't want to cause problems for you and your own parents, but this is one time where they should have some faith in their kid and be there for you.

Gawker is a good idea as mentioned, but so is wired, cnet, and regular television news and radio stations. whatever you do, don't give them anything, including passwords. Remember, you have the right to remain silent too, and that can be your best card played when they start trying to get tough with you, tell them you are advised by your lawyer not to speak without his/her presence, even if you don't have one yet. The job is on them to prove you guilty, even though we live in different times today, for the most part, you are still innocent until proven guilty. That is of course unless the court you end up in has gold trim on the flag, then your pretty much screwed, as thats a court trying you under admiral law, or martial law, and not constitutional law. More or less in those cases, you're guilty until proven innocent. Get a lawyer. We're not lawyers, so anything we say is still pretty much hear say, but contact https://www.eff.org/ at least and find out what your options are. If you are innocent, don't give up without a fight!

Thanks for this, I will be contacting them tomorrow if the school doesn't drop this against me. I couldn't believe it when I heard the dean say to the network admin "there are reports that hes hacking into teachers facebook accounts". I she came and got me out of math and saw me doing my math on paper. Please if there a new kind of physical paper that connects to the internet and when you write 2x - (4/2) / 4y that equations equals "hack teachers facebook account". I think I am going to join "hacking is not a crime" now lol. At this point I am just ranting more so sorry if it starts sounding like whining.

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So you never did directly say, Have you at any point Hacked, logged in, sidejacked, into a teacher's or student's Facebook without prior permission from the owner of the account? The reason I ask is because you seem to always explain that you didn't during certain time frames. Perhaps you did it before or after? If you want to plead the 5th I will totally understand. :P

One thing you might do is request to talk to your school's IT guy. If there is anyone within the school that would understand you, your knowledge, and your plight it would be him. Let him know yeah your a curious kid but that doesn't mean you did any of the stuff and that you would happily own up to something you did.

Worst come to worse you spend some time out of school. It isn't the worst thing that could happen. *Hell take that time to work on some more scripting*

Are your parents punishing you too or is it just the school?

Personally I wouldn't get the eff or anyone involved simply because I believe it would over-inflate the situation. However, that is just my opinion so do as you please.

Just be careful! ;)

Edited by combatwombat27
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So you never did directly say, Have you at any point Hacked, logged in, sidejacked, into a teacher's or student's Facebook without prior permission from the owner of the account? The reason I ask is because you seem to always explain that you didn't during certain time frames. Perhaps you did it before or after? If you want to plead the 5th I will totally understand. :P

One thing you might do is request to talk to your school's IT guy. If there is anyone within the school that would understand you, your knowledge, and your plight it would be him. Let him know yeah your a curious kid but that doesn't mean you did any of the stuff and that you would happily own up to something you did.

Worst come to worse you spend some time out of school. It isn't the worst thing that could happen. *Hell take that time to work on some more scripting*

Are your parents punishing you too or is it just the school?

Personally I wouldn't get the eff or anyone involved simply because I believe it would over-inflate the situation. However, that is just my opinion so do as you please.

Just be careful! ;)

At this point, I would advice against speaking to anyone at the school, including the IT people. Especially since hes already been charged by the school, its in his best interest to say nothing. It could only be used against him, even if he did nothing, if the school caught wind of it. If the Teachers are on facebook while AT school, and hacked while AT school, that in itself, is partly their fault, but could even be the IT person doing it at the school(not pointing fingers, just making an obvious point, anyone could be doing it or the teacher could even have had malware on their machine at home or at school). The fact a teacher accused a student of breaking into their facebook account, is pretty lame in itself. What teacher shares their facebook account with kids in class or uses it while on the job when they are supposed to be teaching kids, not surfing facebook.
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So you never did directly say, Have you at any point Hacked, logged in, sidejacked, into a teacher's or student's Facebook without prior permission from the owner of the account? The reason I ask is because you seem to always explain that you didn't during certain time frames. Perhaps you did it before or after? If you want to plead the 5th I will totally understand. :P

One thing you might do is request to talk to your school's IT guy. If there is anyone within the school that would understand you, your knowledge, and your plight it would be him. Let him know yeah your a curious kid but that doesn't mean you did any of the stuff and that you would happily own up to something you did.

Worst come to worse you spend some time out of school. It isn't the worst thing that could happen. *Hell take that time to work on some more scripting*

Are your parents punishing you too or is it just the school?

Personally I wouldn't get the eff or anyone involved simply because I believe it would over-inflate the situation. However, that is just my opinion so do as you please.

Just be careful! ;)

I understand where you are coming from and you raised a good point. No I did not ever at any point log into by any means a teachers and or students Facebook account without their permission first hand. Not only that never have I logged into any students account on the network. I few weeks ago (before I even had my pineapple) I found a vulnerability in the way my school had RDP set up but I went to the network admin and told him. I never hijacked anyone's session I logged in as my self actually because I know him and I know he wouldn't mind. That wasn't even a problem that was presented at all during the 2 hours of being yelled at by someone who was struggling to comprehend what they were/are dealing with.

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Wow... just goes to show, "If it nays like a horse and looks like a horse...". Also, Darren was smart and called it Hak5... so I think taking the "c" out of Hack... making it an entirely different entity. Also, they can check to see who did it, can't they?

What state are you from? I will do some research for you, if you would not mind...

edit: http://www.dailymail...asses-snow.html

On a side note; in the state of Michigan; this is considered a felony. I am a felon and this is not something you want... Lawyer up...

Edited by Pwnd2Pwnr
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Wow... just goes to show, "If it nays like a horse and looks like a horse...". Also, Darren was smart and called it Hak5... so I think taking the "c" out of Hack... making it an entirely different entity. Also, they can check to see who did it, can't they?

I gave them all my student info. So they are going to check my activity which is fine because I only use the schools computers to do work in simulated labs for my linux+. I'm not worried about them proving me guilty for this because I know that I'm not and their is no evidence but what makes me mad about this is that I was proven guilty before proven innocent and now when ever anything happens I would pretty much be assumed to be guilty of it. Like I said with the virus on the counties system. I just a matter of time before they start trying to pin that one on me. They are already attacking my friend because he figured out how it is spreading it self and if he can figure that out then he must have been or been in association with the person who planted it according to their logic.

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Hahaha that really sucks man I had something like that happen to me in highschool.

On our school network every student could see all the network drives, and there were a lot of them to like drive A: - Z:. One of them contain a text file generated by the user login server every night that sync'd something or something because it had a daily time stamp change. It was a list of all username and full birth names of every student on the network(Our entire district). Me being a dumb ass kid I sent it to other students and everyone finds out about it, a teacher catches a kid looking at it, yadda yadda it goes to the school IT guy, comes back to me etc. The school IT guy told them I had "made a network scanner that sniffed every user/pass and was destroying the network" They took me into a room sat down for a chat and they gave me the long speel about how they knew what I was doing, wasn't going to get away with it and be expelled.

I told them anyone on any account can see the text file in K:\log.txt or whatever it was. They all had an embarrassed look on their faces and I never heard about it again :/

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Hahaha that really sucks man I had something like that happen to me in highschool.

On our school network every student could see all the network drives, and there were a lot of them to like drive A: - Z:. One of them contain a text file generated by the user login server every night that sync'd something or something because it had a daily time stamp change. It was a list of all username and full birth names of every student on the network(Our entire district). Me being a dumb ass kid I sent it to other students and everyone finds out about it, a teacher catches a kid looking at it, yadda yadda it goes to the school IT guy, comes back to me etc. The school IT guy told them I had "made a network scanner that sniffed every user/pass and was destroying the network" They took me into a room sat down for a chat and they gave me the long speel about how they knew what I was doing, wasn't going to get away with it and be expelled.

I told them anyone on any account can see the text file in K:\log.txt or whatever it was. They all had an embarrassed look on their faces and I never heard about it again :/

That reminds me of my friend who lives up in NC who found out that the C: drive had no security on it other then being a hidden drive and he opened it, found a plain text file called adminpass.txt or what ever opened it and got kicked out for the rest of the year. I don't see why that gets you kicked out its a huge gaping whole that they should have noticed and someone was going to find it eventually.

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Well, I do not like the way my brain is processing and I think that the justice systems have a lot on their plates as it is; but I feel you should call a lawyer and file a defamation suit against the school. I would have been insanely embarrased by this. They took you out of class (in front of your peers) and labeled you before the facts are in. Are you suspended today? If so, they handed down disciplinary actions against you and the bastards have no proof that you did it. That right there is what I call, "Profiling." You now have a "label" on your record... The more I think about it... the more the lawsuit makes sense to me.

IF there is a shred of documentation that laments your permanent record; you need to contact a lawyer and demand that all of the documentation of this occurence needs to be sealed and "erased" (for a lack of a better word). Frivolous lawsuits are usually what make me irritated with the justice system, ie "Do not cut the limb you are sitting on with this chain saw" and "I burnt myself with hot coffee because they didn't label it 'hot'.", etc.

You are a kid who scares a bunch of spineless adults whom have to blame students for their mistakes. More than likely; one of the faculty/staff got ./SET up...

my 2 cents on it... but feel free to do what you have to do; just make sure this doesn't tarnish your name...

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Well, I do not like the way my brain is processing and I think that the justice systems have a lot on their plates as it is; but I feel you should call a lawyer and file a defamation suit against the school. I would have been insanely embarrased by this. They took you out of class (in front of your peers) and labeled you before the facts are in. Are you suspended today? If so, they handed down disciplinary actions against you and the bastards have no proof that you did it. That right there is what I call, "Profiling." You now have a "label" on your record... The more I think about it... the more the lawsuit makes sense to me.

IF there is a shred of documentation that laments your permanent record; you need to contact a lawyer and demand that all of the documentation of this occurence needs to be sealed and "erased" (for a lack of a better word). Frivolous lawsuits are usually what make me irritated with the justice system, ie "Do not cut the limb you are sitting on with this chain saw" and "I burnt myself with hot coffee because they didn't label it 'hot'.", etc.

You are a kid who scares a bunch of spineless adults whom have to blame students for their mistakes. More than likely; one of the faculty/staff got ./SET up...

my 2 cents on it... but feel free to do what you have to do; just make sure this doesn't tarnish your name...

Today I found out that apparently at the beginning of the school year we signed a contract that basically says we agree that the constitution doesn't apply to us in school. For example, we can be search based on a single accusation, if we are asked something we have to give an answer. Pretty much what ever they say goes. The thing about this "contract" is that if we didn't sign it we would get detention until we did sign it. So pretty much its a contract that is mandatory for you to accept and you have no voice in the making of it. Being in school is like being in a communist country now days. They have't said when I am suspended or for how long yet but they did make it pretty clear that I am facing minimum of a day. I'm pretty sure its because of just having the pineapple with me. They don't understand it they look at it as a magic box that breaks into what ever you point it at. I told them I only have it to use as a tool to study for my linux+ which they are offering me to take.

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I'm not sure but as a student my self I don't have a voice to the school I would need someone to do anything otherwise it's considered talking back to authority and I could potentially get written up for saying something. It sucks being 17.

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I'm not sure but as a student my self I don't have a voice to the school I would need someone to do anything otherwise it's considered talking back to authority and I could potentially get written up for saying something. It sucks being 17.

Even if you signed something that gave them a right to search you, you're a minor, and that rule, may actually be illegal, in a court of law. Unlawful search a seizure is a crime, and even if they did search it, you have a right not to offer them any info and remain silent. Let them threaten with court, and then keep your mouth shut until you get there. Ask for a lawyer if your parents won't help. Either way, I would have already looked into a lawyer by now. If this goes on your permanent record, its not something you should have to put up with if innocent, and will burden your future in a number of ways, from college and other further education, to job and employment options. Don't accept a plea or bargain offer of lesser crime of any kind either. If you are innocent, you are innocent. Don't speak or offer anything to them about the ordeal either. One can't self incriminate themselves, and anything you say to anyone, are things that can be used against you. Sucks. Really does, but don't know how else to help you other than getting the best lawyer you can find.

At this point in time, I would say, screw them, get emancipated, quit this BS school, go to a tech school, get your degree/cert, etc, and GED, and start your life. Probably not the greatest advice, but how long until you are 18? if this goes to court and they try you as an adult, its worth fighting tooth and nail to get everything not only dropped, but something put on the books and the school reprimanded and policies changed. Schools need to be educated themselves on things like this since they have no clue about technology, the very thing you study and aspire a career in. They are only hindering your ability to your rights to an education and ability to build a future for yourself. Most kids at your age, don't even care what they are going to do after high school. The fact you passed your A+ and working on your Linux+, wish they even offered any of that when I was in high school, because I'd be in a much different place today making good money with a head start like that.

Good luck, hope you get it sorted out, but don't compromise your principals nor take any bargain or plea if you truly didn't do anything wrong.

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Today I found out that apparently at the beginning of the school year we signed a contract that basically says we agree that the constitution doesn't apply to us in school. For example, we can be search based on a single accusation, if we are asked something we have to give an answer. Pretty much what ever they say goes. The thing about this "contract" is that if we didn't sign it we would get detention until we did sign it. So pretty much its a contract that is mandatory for you to accept and you have no voice in the making of it. Being in school is like being in a communist country now days. They have't said when I am suspended or for how long yet but they did make it pretty clear that I am facing minimum of a day. I'm pretty sure its because of just having the pineapple with me. They don't understand it they look at it as a magic box that breaks into what ever you point it at. I told them I only have it to use as a tool to study for my linux+ which they are offering me to take.

This just keeps getting better. You will have to consult a lawyer. Find one that has free consultations. It is a violation of your rights... yes... but the contract s what in question, now. Can you find your contract (or request for the one you signed; might cost a couple dollars) you signed? If so, I would LOVE to look it over.

First things first: Represent Hak5 but remove the sticker from your laptop because it will get you in more trouble. Digip nailed this one on the head. If you are that talented behind a keyboard, you should switch schools. I don't think you posted your age (that is a good thing). If you go ahead and find a different school (easier said than done) in your district or close to it, it may provide you with a new environment. BUT, do not tell anyone ANYTHING about your skills... that only arouses suspicion if it happens again.

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I'm going to say the same thing we discussed on the IRC channel. Yes they may be handling it wrong. Yes it is unfair, but you have a year and a half or so since your parents aren't punishing you just take the suspension as a free vacation that no one else gets and don't worry about it. As long as you still will be able to take your tests etc when you get back it really isn't hurting you. My fear is if you make to big a "stink" out of it then you will only end up hurting yourself. If you were in college or something I would say fight it as being out of class can really hurt your grades, but high school you should be fine.

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I'm going to say the same thing we discussed on the IRC channel. Yes they may be handling it wrong. Yes it is unfair, but you have a year and a half or so since your parents aren't punishing you just take the suspension as a free vacation that no one else gets and don't worry about it. As long as you still will be able to take your tests etc when you get back it really isn't hurting you. My fear is if you make to big a "stink" out of it then you will only end up hurting yourself. If you were in college or something I would say fight it as being out of class can really hurt your grades, but high school you should be fine.

So long as they don't press charges and take it to court. Either way, if you're innocent, don't plead to anything you didn't do. Ever. Regardless.
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So long as they don't press charges and take it to court. Either way, if you're innocent, don't plead to anything you didn't do. Ever. Regardless.

What he said... DO NOT SAY ANYTHING WITHOUT AN ATTORNEY PRESENT. The cops will try to make you admit guilt... it is their job to close the case quickly.

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Here is the update on this story. Today I get to school and go to the deans office right away. We sit down and she says "we didn't find any evidence that you did but with that said we you are suspended for 3 days because you have the potential to have done this." That 3 days got reduced to 2 days because I had to take my final today (a day early). But still what they are saying is exactly the same as this analogy:

A man is walking buy a car and the cops come and arrest him and charge him with breaking into that car because he has the knowledge and the potential to do it. No motive, no evidence that he did but because he has the potential and known how to break into a car (even with no background of doing so) he is guilty.

For now I am just going to enjoy me extended Christmas vacation and not make a big deal. The actual principal suggested that they offer me a job so I guess something good came out of this.

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The fact they admit they have no evidence, yet still suspend you, you have more patience than me. I'd ask for it in writing that you we're found innocent. Then take that and the suspension to a lawyer. They could be paying for your college if they aren't careful with a counterclaim complaint.

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