flash profecinal 8

[MrDave2176]

its justfull when it cost around 500-1000$

No it isn't. These companies provide software at discounted rates as part of bundles, student discounts and bulk=buy discounts if you purchase it through legal channels. Often times for $100 or less.

Just becasue you have nothing tangible to hold when you purchase the software (aside fomr a DVD or Disk) doesn't mean it isn't real merchandise.

You wouldn't consider stealing an iPod becasue it costs $300 would you? Or a digital camera?

Get real. If you just want to use it once or twice then it only seems like a lot of money. If you want to use it professionally...it is part of the cost of doing business.

[metatron]

its justfull when it cost around 500-1000$

No it isn't. These companies provide software at discounted rates as part of bundles, student discounts and bulk=buy discounts if you purchase it through legal channels. Often times for $100 or less.

Just becasue you have nothing tangible to hold when you purchase the software (aside fomr a DVD or Disk) doesn't mean it isn't real merchandise.

You wouldn't consider stealing an iPod becasue it costs $300 would you? Or a digital camera?

Get real. If you just want to use it once or twice then it only seems like a lot of money. If you want to use it professionally...it is part of the cost of doing business.

I have a real issue when people compare taking a copy of a piece of software to stealing something likes an Ipod it would be more like taking apart an Ipod and making a duplicate of it using your own money, you would still be depriving the designer of the product the money for his work but its not the same thing.

The concept of Intellectual property has gone over the top, in the last few years.

[MrDave2176]

I have a real issue when people compare taking a copy of a piece of software to stealing something likes an Ipod it would be more like taking apart an Ipod and making a duplicate of it using your own money, you would still be depriving the designer of the product the money for his work but its not the same thing.

The concept of Intellectual property has gone over the top, in the last few years.

Okay let's try it a different way. I design a useful device - Say an iPod. And some person in China manufactures an IDENTICAL device that maybe doesn't have my proprietary software but performs the same function. Is it stealing?

If I create something I am entitled to get paid for it if that is my goal regardless of whether it is tangible or not.

The only way your analogy is comparable is if you REVERSE-ENGINEERED the software and then wrote your own software that does the same thing.

Look at it this way...Let us say that there are devices in every business and home that if you drop something in it, then an exact duplicate came out the other end. Then EVERYTHING becomes a matter of design doesn't it? If you buy an iPod and take it home and drop it in your magic-transduplicator and then give the copy iPod to a friend, who got ripped off? You? - because you paid for the original device? That is wrong thinking.

The creator of the device has a right to get recognition for his work. This is why songwriters get paid for other people recording their songs, and why people cannot randomly make money by Mission Impossible movies if they feel like it.

I am not saying that the current system is 100% perfect. It isn't. Digital media is bugaboo when it comes to figuring out how money is to be distributed. But the bottom line is IT IS STEALING INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. The solution isn't to throw up your hands and pronounce that it is all free, take what you want.

If you don't like it, go ahead and steal. But don't deny that it is a crime.

[Shaun]

I have a real issue when people compare taking a copy of a piece of software to stealing something likes an Ipod it would be more like taking apart an Ipod and making a duplicate of it using your own money, you would still be depriving the designer of the product the money for his work but its not the same thing.

You know I said almost exactly the same thing up there ^.

[Shaun]

Okay let's try it a different way. I design a useful device - Say an iPod. And some person in China manufactures an IDENTICAL device that maybe doesn't have my proprietary software but performs the same function. Is it stealing?

Erm, no. I don't know if you were looking for a yes there, but it isn't stealing. It may be a patent infringement, but it isn't stealing.

If I create something I am entitled to get paid for it if that is my goal regardless of whether it is tangible or not.

I would agree with that.

The only way your analogy is comparable is if you REVERSE-ENGINEERED the software and then wrote your own software that does the same thing.

The analogy is pretty much the closest thing you are going to get as a real life comparison. Obviously you can't copy tangible things as you can with data.

Look at it this way...Let us say that there are devices in every business and home that if you drop something in it, then an exact duplicate came out the other end. Then EVERYTHING becomes a matter of design doesn't it? If you buy an iPod and take it home and drop it in your magic-transduplicator and then give the copy iPod to a friend, who got ripped off? You? - because you paid for the original device? That is wrong thinking.

It's Apple who is screwed, but it still isn't stealing. Again, I guess it would be patent infringement.

I am not saying that the current system is 100% perfect. It isn't. Digital media is bugaboo when it comes to figuring out how money is to be distributed. But the bottom line is IT IS STEALING INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY.

No it isn't. It's copyright infringement.

If you don't like it, go ahead and steal. But don't deny that it is a crime.

Yes, stealing is a crime. But this isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement, which is also a crime. But they aren't the same thing. I'm not sure why people insist on calling it stealing, it certainly wouldn't by prosecutable as under any theft/larceny laws I know.

[metatron]

I disagree with all piracy and I strongly disagree with music piracy but software like Photoshop and Flash is targeted and developed for companies and is priced to reflect that, which means it is out of the price range of the average person, this doesn’t mean people should go get a pirate copy, but it is understandable that they will.

The software companies should make two different licences one for corporate use in which you have to pay a higher price if you are attending to use their product for financial gain and a licence for personal use only, which would be at a more reasonable price say sub $100. I strongly believe that this would increase their profits.

The reason software becomes an industry standard is that it is the best in it’s field or it at least appears to be, that maybe because of it’s features or it’s ease of use but targeting it only at corporate use or selling a cut price crippled version you are just asking for it to become pirated.

I like the idea of educational versions that are sold at a lower price as long as they don’t remove any features but where is the version for the people on minimum wage and are not in school.

The laws that back up the concept of intellectual property stifle innovation in the software and hardware industry in a lot of case’s.

[VaKo]

True, there is no way I could do the things I can do now with Photoshop if I hadn't been pirating it since version 3. And to be honest, I am looking forward to the day I can afford a legit version. Adobe must realise there is an army of students who love the software, but not as much as food.

[cooper]

Let's try an analogy that probably works a little better.

A new season of Cool TV Show [CTS] is aired. You receive it on a public channel via satellite in digital quality, and using your harddisk recorder you store it for viewing later. Since this show is cool, you keep it around because you might want to see it again later.

Did you, at this point, steal anything?

Eventually this season of CTS ends, and a lot of people figured out that CTS was one HELL of a series. It grabs a few emmies, some actors get movie parts, etc, etc. Problem is that a lot of people didn't see all the episodes for whatever reason. And since the show turned out to be really good, the creator now wants a LOT more money from the TV station to allow them to do reruns. They can't afford the amount requested, so no reruns. You, however, have all the episodes on your harddisk recorder since you were smart enough to program it to store them all and never delete any of them. You invite friends that missed shows over to come watch those shows, or even some CTS parties where you watch a number of shows back-to-back.

Did you, at this point, steal anything?

As having all those people over every weekend just to watch CTS is starting to piss you off, you decide to just burn them onto a number of DVDs. You put some effort into it by creating some nice menus and stuff. Create some nice cover art using screengrabs from the show. You end up with a 4-DVD set that you sell to anybody who wants them for 10 dollars. Of those 10 dollars, 9 are actual costs you made for getting the DVDs, the boxes, etc and 1 dollar is 'profit' you feel you deserve for putting all that effort in the menus, cover art and of course time spent letting your computers burn those DVDs.

Did you, at this point, steal anything?

- Remember this point in time, as I'll be getting back to it later -

Since CTS was voted Best TV Show Of The Year the creator decides to make a nice Collector's Box of CTS. Behind the scenes footage gets added, some interviews, etc. Their set weighs in at 5 disks: 4 for the episodes and 1 for the extras. They put it in the stores for 50 dollars per box. Your own collection is still being sold for 10 dollars a pop, and business is booming. You're offering the box for sale online through eBay and such, and even got a special DVD burning machine. It took all of your profits and most of your savings to get this machine, but you figure the way things are going you can recoup that in a relatively short time, and you'll finally be able to do something about this huge backlog of orders you've got.

Did you, at this point, steal anything?

Before you get a chance to recoup your investment in the DVD burning computer you get a visit from the Feds. They shut you down, confiscate *ALL* your computers, your special DVD burning machine as well as all blank DVDs, boxes etc. Your trial is swift thanks to your no-good pro-bono lawyer who doesn't have time for you and your financial difficulty prevents you from getting a decent one. You get sent to a Federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison to spend some quality time with bubba. When you're released you don't have a dollar to your name and still need to pay that hefty fine the judge decided to give you given the exaggerated damages the creator told the judge and your stupid lawyer accidentally forgot to challenge.

Did you, at this point, steal anything?

As a bonus question, please go back to that point in time I mentioned earlier. One of the DVD boxes you've sold is sent to China where a professional copying outfit prints a few billion copies that for all intents and purposes are identical to yours. They sell this batch at the same places you do for a mere 3 dollars. Your sales dry up and you're wondering what ever happened.

Did they, at this point, steal from you?

[metatron]

Let's try an analogy that probably works a little better.

A new season of Cool TV Show [CTS] is aired. You receive it on a public channel via satellite in digital quality, and using your harddisk recorder you store it for viewing later. Since this show is cool, you keep it around because you might want to see it again later.

Did you, at this point, steal anything?

No

Eventually this season of CTS ends, and a lot of people figured out that CTS was one HELL of a series. It grabs a few emmies, some actors get movie parts, etc, etc. Problem is that a lot of people didn't see all the episodes for whatever reason. And since the show turned out to be really good, the creator now wants a LOT more money from the TV station to allow them to do reruns. They can't afford the amount requested, so no reruns. You, however, have all the episodes on your harddisk recorder since you were smart enough to program it to store them all and never delete any of them. You invite friends that missed shows over to come watch those shows, or even some CTS parties where you watch a number of shows back-to-back.

Did you, at this point, steal anything?

No

As having all those people over every weekend just to watch CTS is starting to piss you off, you decide to just burn them onto a number of DVDs. You put some effort into it by creating some nice menus and stuff. Create some nice cover art using screengrabs from the show. You end up with a 4-DVD set that you sell to anybody who wants them for 10 dollars. Of those 10 dollars, 9 are actual costs you made for getting the DVDs, the boxes, etc and 1 dollar is 'profit' you feel you deserve for putting all that effort in the menus, cover art and of course time spent letting your computers burn those DVDs.

Did you, at this point, steal anything?

It’s not really theft in the sense that you are not depriving the owner of the content the use of it, but if you are making any profit of someone else’s work it could be construed as morally wrong.

- Remember this point in time, as I'll be getting back to it later -

Since CTS was voted Best TV Show Of The Year the creator decides to make a nice Collector's Box of CTS. Behind the scenes footage gets added, some interviews, etc. Their set weighs in at 5 disks: 4 for the episodes and 1 for the extras. They put it in the stores for 50 dollars per box. Your own collection is still being sold for 10 dollars a pop, and business is booming. You're offering the box for sale online through eBay and such, and even got a special DVD burning machine. It took all of your profits and most of your savings to get this machine, but you figure the way things are going you can recoup that in a relatively short time, and you'll finally be able to do something about this huge backlog of orders you've got.

Did you, at this point, steal anything?

It could be seen as stealing as you are doing something that is directly affecting the sales of their product, through making counterfeit copy’s.

Before you get a chance to recoup your investment in the DVD burning computer you get a visit from the Feds. They shut you down, confiscate *ALL* your computers, your special DVD burning machine as well as all blank DVDs, boxes etc. Your trial is swift thanks to your no-good pro-bono lawyer who doesn't have time for you and your financial difficulty prevents you from getting a decent one. You get sent to a Federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison to spend some quality time with bubba. When you're released you don't have a dollar to your name and still need to pay that hefty fine the judge decided to give you given the exaggerated damages the creator told the judge and your stupid lawyer accidentally forgot to challenge.

Did you, at this point, steal anything?

Yes (Kind of).

As a bonus question, please go back to that point in time I mentioned earlier. One of the DVD boxes you've sold is sent to China where a professional copying outfit prints a few billion copies that for all intents and purposes are identical to yours. They sell this batch at the same places you do for a mere 3 dollars. Your sales dry up and you're wondering what ever happened.

Did they, at this point, steal from you?

No

[stingwray]

Most TV licensing has a clause the says that you are stealing what you download if you keep it after a certain number of days.

This came in after recordable VHS became popular and the production houses thought it would be the end of people buying videos from them.

Obviously not many people cared about this as the swapping of the data was limited, but now that it is easy things are starting to hot up as we have seen.

[metatron]

Most TV licensing has a clause the says that you are stealing what you download if you keep it after a certain number of days.

This came in after recordable VHS became popular and the production houses thought it would be the end of people buying videos from them.

Obviously not many people cared about this as the swapping of the data was limited, but now that it is easy things are starting to hot up as we have seen.

Their business models are out of date they need to modernize and realize by going after the common man it will not help them in the long run.

[stingwray]

Their business models are out of date they need to modernize and realize by going after the common man it will not help them in the long run.

I don't doubt that, but I was suprised when I found out that that was the law. It does show how long the various agencies and associations have had to get there act together.

[Atain]

fine ive leernd my leseon besides i have no time for flash and im sorry :cry: