Buying A New Conputer

[Jamo]

Hi.

Im going to buy a new desktop PC. Im mainly using it for virtualization. And for video playing. It may also work as hometeather pc

Im going to install

-Windows 7.

-Ubuntu VirtuaBox/VMware (1-2 XP virtual machines + bt4/ ubuntu)

-Proxmox

Iv been thinking using

Intel Core i5 2500 3.3 GHz LGA115526537 INTEL I5 3.3Ghz (4 cores) 204.90€

Have I understand correctly, that it has a rather good gpu.

Motherboard

Asus P8H67-M PRO B3 Intel H67 LGA1155 microATX-motherboard. 107.90€

4-6Gb cheap memory

Cheap power supply

250 Gb laptops old (1 year) 2,5" sata hdd

Any comments, should I get some different parts?

[555]

"250 Gb laptops old (1 year) 2,5" sata hdd"

What do you mean? I would suggest not to buy a used laptop pc. Everything else looks good, but if you are using VM 4-6GB of RAM may not do what it used to, you may need like 8GB depending on what you are doing or how many VM's you have open at once. 4-6 may be current but in a couple years will be out of date, I would dish out more money on that part. Also VirtualMachine for linux only supports up to 2 cores of cpu and that is if you have that setting in your BIOS.

[Jamo]

"250 Gb laptops old (1 year) 2,5" sata hdd"

What do you mean? I would suggest not to buy a used laptop pc. Everything else looks good, but if you are using VM 4-6GB of RAM may not do what it used to, you may need like 8GB depending on what you are doing or how many VM's you have open at once. 4-6 may be current but in a couple years will be out of date, I would dish out more money on that part. Also VirtualMachine for linux only supports up to 2 cores of cpu and that is if you have that setting in your BIOS.

With that old hdd I ment my old laptops hdd. I had 2 250Gb hdds in my laptop. I changed one to 500Gb, so now I have one spare 250Gb hdd. I may put it back to my laptop, and start using that laptops 500Gb hdd.

Or just buy 7200rmp 500Gb hdd.

Yea I guess that I should get 8 Gb ram.

Also VirtualMachine for linux only supports up to 2 cores of cpu and that is if you have that setting in your BIOS.

Are you talking on some exact product. Or do you mean, that VirtualBox can only support 2 cores.

But can proxmox then use all 4 cores.

My only windows disk is Win 7 Home premiun 32bit. Its for my laptop. Can I use the same product key if I im installing 64bit version of windows 7?

[555]

I have never used Proxmox yet, so I am not sure on the cores. I am just speaking of using VirtualBox for Linux, I have a dual core and was told on IRC that you have to have a special setting in BIOS which a lot of the newer Pc's have to enable dual core VM simulation. Not sure about the product key thing but you can try it out :) as for quad core.. please let me know if you can get all of those working and remember to keep some room for your main os.

[Infiltrator]

With that old hdd I ment my old laptops hdd. I had 2 250Gb hdds in my laptop. I changed one to 500Gb, so now I have one spare 250Gb hdd. I may put it back to my laptop, and start using that laptops 500Gb hdd.

Or just buy 7200rmp 500Gb hdd.

Yea I guess that I should get 8 Gb ram.

Are you talking on some exact product. Or do you mean, that VirtualBox can only support 2 cores.

But can proxmox then use all 4 cores.

My only windows disk is Win 7 Home premiun 32bit. Its for my laptop. Can I use the same product key if I im installing 64bit version of windows 7?

I've never used VirtualBox or Promox before, but I know that VmWare workstation supports 8 processors and 8 cores per processor.

I sometimes run 3 Vms at the same, since my CPU its a quad core and my system has 8 gigs of RAM only.

When running each virtual machines, I allocate two cores and 1.5 to 2 gigs of ram per VMs. The only factor limiting performance is the hard drive. Which is a WD 1TB 7.200

I can tell that when I do a lot of multi-tasking on the VMs simultaneously, it takes them quite sometime to process a task and I can see the hard drive struggling.

That's why I'm buying a QNAP NAS to help improve performance.

Edited March 19, 2011 by Infiltrator

[Jamo]

Not sure about the product key thing but you can try it out :)

Well its probably against OEM license. Well I report after iv tried it.

Im going to get that new pc after 2 weeks. Now I got a lot of exams and I don't want it to distract me.. :)

[digip]

I know Darren is using these i5's in his little proxmox cluster(you coul duse an i7 in the same slot board I believe), but personally, I would go with one of the Gigabyte AMD AM3+ boards with the Phenom II x6 cores. You should be able to get the mobo for around $50:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128394R&cm_re=gigabyte_amd_am3%2b-_-13-128-394R-_-Product

and the chip around $200:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103849&cm_re=phenom_II_x6-_-19-103-849-_-Product

If I add up the products you listed, such as the CPU:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115073&Tpk=Intel%20Core%20i5%202500%203.3%20GHz

You are spending nearly the same price for a Quad core on the Intel, as you would for a 6core on the AMD. The Intel might some out faster in some tests, but if you are going to be using virtual machines, a 6 core CPU would be better for giving more CPU's to specific machines if you wanted to.

For the board comparison:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131711

Its nearly 2.5 times the cost. About the only thing I see that is has as a bonus is the extra USB 3.0 and an extra PCI-E slot for a second GPU, something I don't need. I'm only running 1 ATI 5770 on my current box and more than happy with a single GPU for my gaming needs, and I don't own any USB 3.0 devices. My board also has e-SATA which the intel board doesn't seem to have, plus being AM2+/AM3 compatible, if AMD comes out with a new CPU such as an 8core on the same die, I may be able to keep the same mobo while being able to upgrade the CPU and BIOS firmware alone. Thats what I've already done from my Athlon II X2 to the Phenom II x6 on th same board. I'm hoping that AMD keeps the same form factor for their next gen CPU, so I can use the same board, but not sure if that will be what they do in the future. Just my little rant, but I'm always looking to same some money and the trade off on CPU performance isn't really noticeable, if anything, I would think the AMD 6 core out performs the i5 (but not the i7) in terms of virtualization needs.

As far as the license goes, if it were an OEM license for the laptop, then thats the only place you are really aloud to use it. You could install it in a VM, but you might only be able to activate it once before windows tells you the key is in use the second time around. Volume licensed would be the way to go, but you could also just buy Winodws 7 Pro OEM for system builders from newegg for like $100 and install them in a VM. I think you can do this up to 3 times before it becomes an issue with the key, although technically you should still only be installing it once for activation.

The other option is the free XP and Vista VMs offered by Microsoft, but they expire in May - http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyId=21EABB90-958F-4B64-B5F1-73D0A413C8EF&displaylang=en (Requires Virtual PC since these are VHD's)

There are also images from http://nvd.nist.gov/fdcc/download_fdcc.cfm

See - http://alhaker.blogspot.com/2010/02/metasploit-unleashed-mastering_27.html

Edited March 19, 2011 by digip

[Jamo]

Well using AMD seems to be cheaper in case of virtualization. However, as I posted earlier, Im not using that computer just for proxmox. Im also going to install ubuntu and maybe Win7 to that computer. So then i5 integrated graphics card is needed. Or I need to buy cheap graphics card, if Ill use that AMD.

[digip]

Well using AMD seems to be cheaper in case of virtualization. However, as I posted earlier, Im not using that computer just for proxmox. Im also going to install ubuntu and maybe Win7 to that computer. So then i5 integrated graphics card is needed. Or I need to buy cheap graphics card, if Ill use that AMD.

The AMD board has an integrated GPU as well. Its an ATI Radeon HD 4200 with HDMI, DVI + D-sub. Its not a bad GPU either, although I would just buy a high end and plop it into the PCI-E for better gaming, I used my built in 4200 for about a year before upgrading to the 5770 with no issues for gaming or movies.

Edited March 19, 2011 by digip

[Jamo]

It seems that intel i7 2600 292€ has better support for virtualisation

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=52213

than intel i5 2500 212€

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=52210&processor=i5-2500K&spec-codes=SR008

Edit:

I didn't notice, that it was the motherboard, which have the gpu

Edited March 19, 2011 by Jarmo

[Jamo]

Ok, Iv done a little comparison.

For each:

Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB 3.5" 8.9ms SATA2 7200RPM 32MB -hdd. 57.90€

Corsair CX500W CX-sarjan 500 W ATX-powersupply. 59.90€

Kingston Valueram 4GB 1333MHz DDR3 momory 48.90€/each x 2 = 97.90€

i5

gpu integrated, sandy bridge

Intel Core i5 2500K 3,3 GHz LGA1155 processor 212.90€

Asus P8H67-M PRO B3 Intel H67 LGA1155 microATX-motherboard 107.90€

= 536.50€

Or

i7

gpu integrated, sandy bridge

Intel Core i7 2600 3.4 GHz LGA1155 -processor, boxed. 292.90€

Asus P8H67-M PRO B3 Intel H67 LGA1155 microATX-motherboard 107.90€

= 616.50€

OR

AMD

ATI Radeon HD 4250 (HDMI, DVI-D, VGA)

AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition 3.2GHz 6ydintä AM3 -socet 201.90€

Asus M4A88TD-M EVO/USB3 AMD 880G AM3 mATX-emolevy. 100.90€

= 518.50€

This last wount work, mobo doesn't support 6 cores

Well propably I woun't get that i5 one.

So its i7 = 616.90€ or AMD 518.50€

Which is better AMD's ATI Radeon HD 4500 or intel's sandy ridge?

Which configuration should I get. Any better Ideas?

Thanks digip.

Edited March 19, 2011 by Jarmo

[Infiltrator]

Which is better AMD's ATI Radeon HD 4500 or intel's sandy ridge?

Which configuration should I get. Any better Ideas?

Thanks digip.

In this case, AMD's ATI will definitely beat Intel's Sandy Bridge.

Integrated graphics are OK for average gaming, film watching. But performance will come from add on graphics card.

That is if you are into heavy gaming!!

[digip]

I've got a Gigabyte GA-MA785GM-US2H with an AMD Phenom II x6 1090T at 3.2Ghz. In order to support the 6 cores, I had to do a BIOS update. The board you listed should support 6 cores, just make sure you do a BIOS update after installing everything.

[Jamo]

I've got a Gigabyte GA-MA785GM-US2H with an AMD Phenom II x6 1090T at 3.2Ghz. In order to support the 6 cores, I had to do a BIOS update. The board you listed should support 6 cores, just make sure you do a BIOS update after installing everything.

Can you post here a site that says so.

so far Iv seen only sites saying it will support up to Phenom II X4.

And that ati gpu is integrated in mobo

Edited March 20, 2011 by Jarmo

[Jamo]

GA-890GPA-UD3H GA-890GPA-UD3H, 890GX AM3, SATA 6Gbps, USB 3.0, ATX 134.00€

HDT90ZFBGRBOX Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition, AM3, 3.2GHz 197.00€

And the 8Gb memory and 500-1000Gb hdd.

And some powersupply.

Does this seem good.

[Infiltrator]

GA-890GPA-UD3H GA-890GPA-UD3H, 890GX AM3, SATA 6Gbps, USB 3.0, ATX 134.00€

HDT90ZFBGRBOX Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition, AM3, 3.2GHz 197.00€

And the 8Gb memory and 500-1000Gb hdd.

And some powersupply.

Does this seem good.

I just checked the manufactures website and this board does not support hex core CPU. Currently, there are no bios update that will enable you to use x6 cores cpu.

Besides, this board has some appealing features such as a maximum of 16gigs of ram. USB3 and 6 gigabit SATA support and a HDMI port.

BIOS Update Details Link

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3516#bios

Edited March 20, 2011 by Infiltrator

[Jamo]

Yea that max 16Gb ram may become an issue.

I guess, that intel's i7 might be better.

Price difference is under 100€.

Is i7's gpu good enough for playing 1080p hd videos.

[digip]

Can you post here a site that says so.

so far Iv seen only sites saying it will support up to Phenom II X4.

And that ati gpu is integrated in mobo

Dude, I don't know why you need a site to tell you when I already did. I OWN THE GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H BOARD AND AM RUNNING AN AMD PHENOM II X6 CORE!

You have to do a bios update for the board to use the 6 core properly, but other than that its a good board. They ship with older firmware like version 9 or 10, but I updated to like revision 11 or whatever it is now. You don't hav eot beleive me, but here is a screen shot from my pc, of the command prompt output (wmic computersystem) and from the windows "my computer" properties.

People who bought this board and say it doesn't work with the 6 core, either didn't bother to update their bios, or aren't giving the machine enough power. I've got a 1000watt PSU, 16GB or Ram, an an ATI 5770 GPU and this machine is stable as can be. I've got VMware Workstation (latest version) and can run a Vista VM, Several Windows XP VM's and Backtrack all at the same time. Just give your XP machines 256mg and the Vista machine 2gb and the bt machine 1gb of ram and you are good to go. HDD thrashing does occur, but thats mainly because I have them all on the same HDD and don't own any SSD's but performance is fine. I can run Vista in a VM with full aero with no issues other than the face that its Vista and a P.O.S.

(I get a 5.9 rating because of my HDD throughput and I need to upgrade to SSD's, as everything else gets like 7.x's for GPU, RAM, CPU, etc)

Edited March 20, 2011 by digip

[digip]

I just checked the manufactures website and this board does not support hex core CPU. Currently, there are no bios update that will enable you to use x6 cores cpu.

Besides, this board has some appealing features such as a maximum of 16gigs of ram. USB3 and 6 gigabit SATA support and a HDMI port.

BIOS Update Details Link

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3516#bios

For what board are you referring to? The Socket AM3 - AMD 890GX - GA-890GPA-UD3H? It says it right there on the site that it supports the 6 core! http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=3516 The n/a at the top does not show next to any of the CPUs listed below.

[digip]

Yea that max 16Gb ram may become an issue.

I guess, that intel's i7 might be better.

Price difference is under 100€.

Is i7's gpu good enough for playing 1080p hd videos.

i7 is a CPU, has nothing to do with the GPU. The board you buy that supports an i7 could have any number of chipsets with corresponding internal GPU, from nVidia to ATI or even Intel's own onboard graphics. You could even find boards with no internal GPU, although today most boards will come with some onboard GPU, if not HDMI out of the box.

Edited March 21, 2011 by digip

[Jamo]

i7 is a CPU, has nothing to do with the GPU. The board you buy that supports an i7 could have any number of chipsets with corresponding internal GPU, from nVidei to ATI or even Intel's own onboard graphics. You could even find boards with no internal GPU, although today most boards will come with some onboard GPU, if not HDMI out of the box.

I was talking about i7s integrated graphics.

Its if that processor. Not in motherboard, in case of sandy bridge.

[Jamo]

I asked from two local pc stores, which one to buy. Both said, that i7 2600(K) is better for now. maybe in future 6 cores may give some help, but for now i7 is better.

And is you check this http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/the-sandy-bridge-review-intel-core-i7-2600k-i5-2500k-core-i3-2100-tested i7 seems to be my best choice.

So I guess that ill buy i7 2600 280€

Asus P8H7-M PRO B3 matx board 105€

8 gb ram 92€

1Tb 7200rpm hdd 55€

500W-620W powersupply 55€

[Jason Cooper]

Have you considered an SSD as your system disk to go along side the 1TB disk you have in your list?

[Jamo]

Have you considered an SSD as your system disk to go along side the 1TB disk you have in your list?

Well yes I have considered SSD, but its way too expensive for my budget now. Maybe later when I have enough money for it :D

I guess, that hdd speed may become an issue.

[Jason Cooper]

Unless you already have a large lump of data to be put on the new system I would be inclined to get an SSD and add a large hard disk at a later date. Mainly because it is easier to migrate your data onto a new disk than migrate your OS on to a new disk.

Also if you do have a large lump of data from a previous system to go on the new one you could always use the hard disk from your old system till you have the money for the large disk.