Mkiii Heat Problems

[mreidiv]

My MkIII keeps getting too hot after about two hours and resets its self has any one solved this problem yet? if so how

I also notice that the WLAN light goes out when i go back in tho the wgui everything is shut off so that leads me to believe that it reboots itself.

I have re-flash the firmware 3 time still same issue

Edited December 30, 2011 by mreidiv

[Mr-Protocol]

I would try to limit the tools you are running. Avoid overloading the pineapple, it's not a big powerhouse computer ;). I would suggest using only karma on it and doing the rest of your URLSnarf so on through the tethered laptop.

[mreidiv]

I would try to limit the tools you are running. Avoid overloading the pineapple, it's not a big powerhouse computer ;). I would suggest using only karma on it and doing the rest of your URLSnarf so on through the tethered laptop.

but that kind of defeates the reason i bought it. i thought it would work as advertised being able to run karma, dns , ans url all at the same time

[Mr-Protocol]

but that kind of defeates the reason i bought it. i thought it would work as advertised being able to run karma, dns , ans url all at the same time

Not sure about "advertised" running them all at the same time for 2 hours plus. That's like saying a Pentium II can "multitask" and you run multiple high demand programs on it and wonder why it over heats.

But i'll tell you what I can do. I will fire mine up and let it run for a while and then check the uptime, while running Karma, dnsspoof and urlsnarf. The only thing that I can't setup right now is the IP forwarding and clients. But if nothing else we can get a baseline to see if just running the tools overheats it.

Update: With Karma, URLSnart, DNSSpoof, and ngrep running it only is using about 15% CPU on the AP51. with 25896K used memory which leaves 3868K free.

My guess is when you run these tools they are eating up the RAM which may cause it to reboot, or the heat in combination with. I'll update again after it's been running for a few hours.

[mreidiv]

ty

[telot]

Not sure about "advertised" running them all at the same time for 2 hours plus. That's like saying a Pentium II can "multitask" and you run multiple high demand programs on it and wonder why it over heats.

But i'll tell you what I can do. I will fire mine up and let it run for a while and then check the uptime, while running Karma, dnsspoof and urlsnarf. The only thing that I can't setup right now is the IP forwarding and clients. But if nothing else we can get a baseline to see if just running the tools overheats it.

Update: With Karma, URLSnart, DNSSpoof, and ngrep running it only is using about 15% CPU on the AP51. with 25896K used memory which leaves 3868K free.

My guess is when you run these tools they are eating up the RAM which may cause it to reboot, or the heat in combination with. I'll update again after it's been running for a few hours.

Mr. Protocol, i<3u

telot

[Mr-Protocol]

After about an hour, the top of the case is a little warm: ~100 degrees F

The bottom is at it's hottest point: 118 degrees F

Memory: ~27992K Used ~1780K Free

CPU: Bounces between ~59% Idle and ~85% Idle

As stupid as this sounds, I might run my AP51 upside down so the top of the case is on the desk so the heat goes direcly up instead of past the rest of the case.

The uhttpd seems to be the "CPU-Hog" from watching top. After clicking around in the web interface, it seemed to have calmed down uhttpd from taking 10% cpu every few seconds.

[mreidiv]

After about an hour, the top of the case is a little warm: ~100 degrees F

The bottom is at it's hottest point: 118 degrees F

Memory: ~27992K Used ~1780K Free

As stupid as this sounds, I might run my AP51 upside down so the top of the case is on the desk so the heat goes direcly up instead of past the rest of the case.

its not stupid heat rises plus it is better vented on the bottom

i was thinking of installing a 3v microfan

Edited December 30, 2011 by mreidiv

[Mr-Protocol]

2 hours later and it's still up.

After the first hour I flipped it upside down to see if that helped with the heat.

Results:

• 122.5 degrees F on the bottom
  
• 103 degrees F on the top
  

root@Pineapple:~# uptime

00:48:54 up 48 min, load average: 0.27, 0.34, 0.34

root@Pineapple:~# uptime

00:50:49 up 50 min, load average: 0.32, 0.41, 0.37

root@Pineapple:~# uptime

00:51:52 up 51 min, load average: 0.27, 0.38, 0.36

root@Pineapple:~# uptime

00:55:50 up 55 min, load average: 0.76, 0.62, 0.47

root@Pineapple:~# uptime

01:12:02 up 1:12, load average: 0.31, 0.38, 0.43

root@Pineapple:~# uptime

01:15:08 up 1:15, load average: 0.57, 0.45, 0.45

root@Pineapple:~# uptime

01:26:33 up 1:26, load average: 0.59, 0.48, 0.45

root@Pineapple:~# uptime

01:38:23 up 1:38, load average: 0.43, 0.39, 0.41

root@Pineapple:~# uptime

01:44:15 up 1:44, load average: 0.75, 0.64, 0.51

root@Pineapple:~# uptime

01:47:40 up 1:47, load average: 0.49, 0.57, 0.50

root@Pineapple:~# uptime

01:53:31 up 1:53, load average: 0.51, 0.47, 0.48

root@Pineapple:~# uptime

01:57:56 up 1:57, load average: 0.77, 0.52, 0.50

root@Pineapple:~# uptime

01:59:00 up 1:59, load average: 0.44, 0.46, 0.48

root@Pineapple:~# uptime

02:01:51 up 2:01, load average: 0.40, 0.44, 0.47

root@Pineapple:~# uptime

02:02:48 up 2:02, load average: 0.72, 0.51, 0.49

root@Pineapple:~# uptime

02:04:57 up 2:04, load average: 0.42, 0.48, 0.49

root@Pineapple:~#

This is the top results at the 2 hour mark.

Mem: 27572K used, 2200K free, 0K shrd, 1460K buff, 9580K cached
CPU:   0% usr   1% sys   0% nic  96% idle   0% io   0% irq   0% sirq
Load average: 0.35 0.46 0.49 1/63 13198
  PID  PPID USER     STAT   VSZ %VSZ %CPU COMMAND
 5753  5745 root     R     1480   5%   2% top
 1303  1059 root     S N   1424   5%   1% hostapd-karma -dd /etc/hostapd/karma.
 1432  1431 root     S N   5592  19%   0% urlsnarf -i br-lan
 1492  1491 root     S N   3392  11%   0% dnsspoof -i br-lan -f /www/pineapple/
 1231     1 root     S N   1524   5%   0% hostapd -P /var/run/wifi-phy0.pid -B
  944     1 root     S     1488   5%   0% crond -c /etc/crontabs -l 5
  296     1 root     S     1484   5%   0% syslogd -C16
    1     0 root     S     1480   5%   0% init
 5955  5939 root     S     1480   5%   0% -ash
 5745  5729 root     S     1480   5%   0% -ash
  288     1 root     S     1480   5%   0% init
 1008     1 root     S     1476   5%   0% watchdog -t 5 /dev/watchdog
 1547  1545 root     S N   1472   5%   0% {update-ngrep.sh} /bin/sh /www/pineap
 1433  1430 root     S N   1472   5%   0% {update-urlsnarf} /bin/sh /www/pineap
 1061  1058 root     S N   1472   5%   0% {update-associat} /bin/sh /www/pineap
 1491  1490 root     S N   1472   5%   0% {dnsspoof.sh} /bin/sh /www/pineapple/
 1058  1057 root     S N   1472   5%   0% sh
 1425  1424 root     S N   1472   5%   0% sh
 1430  1429 root     S N   1472   5%   0% sh
 1490  1489 root     S N   1472   5%   0% sh

VSZ is the amount of memory the program would take up if it were all in memory.

[mreidiv]

So that means mine is messed up is it hardware or software

[Mr-Protocol]

So that means mine is messed up is it hardware or software

Not sure, keep in mind I did not have any clients or IP Forwarding enabled. Basically it was just running and not in a "live" situation.

You can monitor your setup like I did by logging into the pineapple with ssh and running "top" to view process information.

If you open up another ssh you can run "uptime" and see average loads and how long it has been booted up.

[Mr-Protocol]

Just unplugged it a few minutes ago. The bottom temp was maxing out at about 134 degrees F.

So I would suggest running this with some sort of cooling or for limited amounts of time.

I may be taking mine apart to add a heatsink. I have a general idea of where the heat is coming from and on the bottom near the antenna so i'll see what I can mock up for cooling.

[mreidiv]

Ok I'll post the results when I get them

[mreidiv]

Just unplugged it a few minutes ago. The bottom temp was maxing out at about 134 degrees F.

So I would suggest running this with some sort of cooling or for limited amounts of time.

I may be taking mine apart to add a heatsink. I have a general idea of where the heat is coming from and on the bottom near the antenna so i'll see what I can mock up for cooling.

I will be adding a fan internally the processor is covered by a metal plate that has thermal paste attached to the processor. that plate is actually keeping heat in.

[Mr-Protocol]

I will be adding a fan internally the processor is covered by a metal plate that has thermal paste attached to the processor. that plate is actually keeping heat in.

That probably isn't the processor, that is probably the WiFi chip.

[mreidiv]

That probably isn't the processor, that is probably the WiFi chip.

[mreidiv]

ok here we go it ran for one hour and 36 minutes while running dns karma nrgep and url processes were relatively the same as yours

i have no way measuring the temp but it did this with the lid off and the lid on

any ideas

[csystem]

My MkIII keeps getting too hot after about two hours and resets its self has any one solved this problem yet? if so how

I agree, the older fons and the newer OM1P/Ap51 use the same AR2315 system on chip wifi. They do run hot. The metal shield can be *carefully* pried off, it snaps in to a

rectangular foot piece which is soldered to the board. You will find a small piece of foam tape, between the chip and the metal RF shield, about 1/16 inch thick which is supposed to conduct heat from the chip to the metal shield. Very poor design, but I suppose that's why they are inexpensive. The early foneras were worse, there was a foam tape between the chip and the RF shield and *another* foam tape between the RF shield and heatsink. But at least there was a heat sink.

I made a heat sink (similar to the one on the early foneras) and used some Arctic Silver thermal epoxy to mount it directly on the chip. If you are *careful* you can cut an opening exactly the same size as your heatsink in the metal RF shield and snap the shield back into place.

See attached photo. It still runs warm, I am thinking about adding a small 12v fan but that might be overkill.

Edited January 4, 2012 by csystem

[Mr-Protocol]

I think I am going to find a 5V fan and just mod it into the plastic shell/case and USB power it.

BTW the FCC website is great for internal photos of devices ;) AP51 FCC

[csystem]

I think I am going to find a 5V fan and just mod it into the plastic shell/case and USB power it.

The large chip under the RF Shield says "Atheros" on it.

Yes thats the Atheros 2315A. I just flashed mine with the new fw and still was pretty hot even with the heatsink directly mounted.

I think I am going to mount a fan. Mr. Protocol, that chip gets pretty hot, I think the foam tape is really acting more as an insulator and does not

conduct much heat away to the shield for a fan to cool. (just my .02)

Of course longevity may not be a concern with (hopefully) a u-boot firmware for the OM2P.

[mreidiv]

Yes thats the Atheros 2315A. I just flashed mine with the new fw and still was pretty hot even with the heatsink directly mounted.

I think I am going to mount a fan. Mr. Protocol, that chip gets pretty hot, I think the foam tape is really acting more as an insulator and does not

conduct much heat away to the shield for a fan to cool. (just my .02)

Of course longevity may not be a concern with (hopefully) a u-boot firmware for the OM2P.

ok my bad i forgot it has an Ethernet chip and a WiFi chip but im not sure why my ap51 keeps shutting down and everyone else's don't

[telot]

ok my bad i forgot it has an Ethernet chip and a WiFi chip but im not sure why my ap51 keeps shutting down and everyone else's don't

Do you have a massive amount of dust or gunk built up mreidiv? I find it unlikely, but since it hasn't been mentioned yet, it's probably worth a shot to fire up an aircompressor and blast the little fruit. Personally I live in the arctic (not really, but its f-ing cold) and my pentest lab is in the basement (where its really f-ing cold) so I have had zero heat problems. Whats your environment like?

Besides that, I'd start hacking the thing apart and adding a small fan like the others were saying. By going off just the pictures, its looks like you may be able to pull power directly off the barrel plug on the underside of the board. Grab a 5 dollar voltmeter from home depot or whatever and let us know how it goes!

telot

[mreidiv]

Do you have a massive amount of dust or gunk built up mreidiv? I find it unlikely, but since it hasn't been mentioned yet, it's probably worth a shot to fire up an aircompressor and blast the little fruit. Personally I live in the arctic (not really, but its f-ing cold) and my pentest lab is in the basement (where its really f-ing cold) so I have had zero heat problems. Whats your environment like?

Besides that, I'd start hacking the thing apart and adding a small fan like the others were saying. By going off just the pictures, its looks like you may be able to pull power directly off the barrel plug on the underside of the board. Grab a 5 dollar voltmeter from home depot or whatever and let us know how it goes!

telot

i don't want to put a fan in it because it is brand new till i figure out if it is the hardware or not, if i modify it the hack shop might not exchange it.

[hak5superfan]

I agree, the older fons and the newer OM1P/Ap51 use the same AR2315 system on chip wifi. They do run hot. The metal shield can be *carefully* pried off, it snaps in to a

rectangular foot piece which is soldered to the board. You will find a small piece of foam tape, between the chip and the metal RF shield, about 1/16 inch thick which is supposed to conduct heat from the chip to the metal shield. Very poor design, but I suppose that's why they are inexpensive. The early foneras were worse, there was a foam tape between the chip and the RF shield and *another* foam tape between the RF shield and heatsink. But at least there was a heat sink.

I made a heat sink (similar to the one on the early foneras) and used some Arctic Silver thermal epoxy to mount it directly on the chip. If you are *careful* you can cut an opening exactly the same size as your heatsink in the metal RF shield and snap the shield back into place.

See attached photo. It still runs warm, I am thinking about adding a small 12v fan but that might be overkill.

Hey csystem! How can I make or where can I buy a heat sink like the one you used in the picture? Thanks!

Would this work? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-2-23-x-23-x-10mm-HEATSINK-Stick-On-FREE-S-H-/390377805481?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae45496a9

Edited January 1, 2012 by hak5superfan

[csystem]

Hey csystem! How can I make or where can I buy a heat sink like the one you used in the picture? Thanks!

Its a little larger than what I used, you could cut it pretty easily with a hacksaw and file it smooth. Mine is a little larger than the chip itself. The only problem with a larger

heat sink mounted directly to the chip is if you get careless and drop your router the shock will stress the solder points which were not designed for that much

weight.

Mine is 20 x 20 x 8 mm. I actually made it from another heatsink, like the one in the auction. I would recommend **not** using the self adhesive tape on that one, best to clean the surface,

and use the thermal epoxy. The tape requires too much pressure to "seat", you risk breaking a solder joint, the epoxy does not require much pressure to seat, and will fill in any small voids and provide better thermal transfer.

Edited January 1, 2012 by csystem