3 floor building

[FroZen_FlaMe]

hey guys

i told u that u r going to hear from me soon :D

this time i have two Qs

the 1st Q is

if for example i am in a buliding that has three floors or more and let's say that i live on the second floor and i'm connected to the building network , and i can see ("using cain and able" ) the other computers that are connected to the same network but only those who are on the same floor. is it possible to also be able to see the other PCs on the other floors ?? if yes how ? if no why ?

the 2nd Q is

why when i'm trying to use cain an able to see the PCs connected to the wireless network it doesn't work ?

but it does work when trying to see the available PCs using the wired network ???

thanx alot in advanced

[shonen]

I will start by saying its late and I am a lil confused with your first question but I shall try and have a crack at it, also I am not to 1337 when it comes to networking.

First question:

This is kind of YES and NO, more than likely each floor is on a serperate network. This could be done via IP addressing. For example floor 1 = 192.168.0.* Floor 2 = 192.168.1.* Floor 3 = 192.168.2.* notice the incrament after the second dot, by changing this you change the network a computer is located on (well for class C addresses anyways), hence they can only comunicate within the same network portion of an IP address. So if you are on the first floor network you will have to change you address to a differnt floor. I also believe the same thing can be achieved by subnetting an IP address block (correcting me if I am wrong on this). Its confusing and a pain in the ass to cover. XD

For further reading consult google for the following: TCP/IP classes and subnetting.

Also if the network is using cisco device's they can split it up via using VLAN's (virtual local area network). Basicly it allows you to sub divid ports on a switch so they are each there own network or a memebr of a certain network and can only comunicate with in the same vlan membership applied to that port. Once again they could have rigged it up as floor 1 = vlan 1 floor 2 = vlan 2 etc etc.

Question 2:

Networking best practice dictates that wireless should be placed on its own VLAN sperate from the main network. I would assume wireless is set as say VLAN 4. Hence the only connections you are gonna see are other clients connected to the wireless access point. The reason cain picks up nothing is no other wireless clients are connected and due to the wirless being situaited on its own vlan port it can not cross over to the wired side of things... if that makes any sense.. It could also be due to the wireless access point's DHCP (dynamic host control protocol) handing out IP addresses seperate from the other networks as mentioned in the above.

Hope that helps and is some what understandable.

P.S: Aint you supposably learning Linux? So why are you using cain??You should be practicing with Ethercap. XD But I will admit cain is pretty user friendly for MITM attacks.

PSS: Don't be an ass hat within your apartment blocks network. =P

[h3%5kr3w]

Good going shonen, I taught you well :P j/k

Ill be honest, I know nothing about cane and abel yet. Just havent had a chance to check it out yet. Also the main issue could very well be the ip addressing scheme. Let me ask, what do you get with wireshark? Also, if there is a layer 3 switch involved, AND there is active vlans in the switch/router, then most probably that is the issue, because for the most part doing stuff like this is only good for 1 hop (directly to or from the router). I may be wrong on this, so if anyone would like to comment, it's welcome. Also, it could be that on the router, each IP address may be set with it's own subnet mask *dont ask me if this is true.. I have no unearthly idea* But that may be the case. Also you cant just change your ip and expect to get other traffic, because if you going through a router, then your ip MUST be within the network address/ subnet of the default gateway to access the network.

BTW! another thing that is good when your using windows, Net Tools. Fun program filled with stuff to play with (INCLUDES NMAP!)

[shonen]

lol *bows* thank you master jedi =P

Well there isn't really much to know about cain, its very user friendly, point and clickish and has a fair few features other than the ARP poisoning side of things. There are a few good tutorials for it on youtube... maybe with messing with on your own lab.

I believe you are correct on vlan's only being good for a single hop but even I am unsure about this. mmmm I wonder what best practice for this would be.

I concur hexskrew and reckon that the O.P's issue is more than likely the IP addressing structure, I would be very surprised if an apartment block was using cisco equipment instead of say the netgear SMB stuff with its easily configured web gui.

Question: With wireshark and finding the other networks situated on the LAN what packets would you be looking at inspecting? I am assuming ARP???

+1 for net tools, great program with lots of options.

[FroZen_FlaMe]

Hey guys

Thanx alot for ur reply

I just can't read it all cuz I'm using I-phone

Since I'm having diffcultities with my Internet connection where I live

So I'll be reading ur post later

Pardon me:(

But I'm sure u helped me alot even though I didn't read any :D

Thanx

[shonen]

BTW I also wrote this stuff up that should help you out with the above stuff (damn I sound like a women seeing as they over use the word stuff and thingie). Please bare in mind I did this sometime ago when I was more of a n00b than what I am now and due to being human I do make mistakes. In any case the links below will be more than enough to explain the basic concepts of a few things.

physical MITMing networks

Basic's of TCP/IP classes and subnetting class C addresses

[h3%5kr3w]

Damn shonen, you broke it down for some folks! Didnt get to read all of it, but im going to have a good look later. Looks mighty legit 2 me.

[shonen]

Thanks Hex, glad you liked it and that other people may find it usefull. I originally wrote it all up for my fellow class mates and did my best to try and break it down and keep it as simplistic as possible.

I think I made a mistake in the MITM one, if you were going to do the wifi one with a ad-hoc connection ICS (internet connection sharing for non networking people) would work better than bridging the connection seeing as it does DHCP.

There may also be one or two minor things but I would have to read over it again, meh it serves its purpose anyways.

[FroZen_FlaMe]

thanx for the help

[Sparda]

You have broken the law and you demonstrated to some one that you have broken the law and how you did it. I'd just drop the subject all together tbh.

[h3%5kr3w]

hmm.. I have to side with Sparda on that one. Besides, you dont seem to be trying anything malicious BUT your basicly asking to get kicked out of school btw..

Read the paper you had to sign to get online when you first started college, and it will specificly say exactly what I am talking about.

[FroZen_FlaMe]

thanx for the help

[Sparda]

u have all the rights but i forgot to tell u something that i've already talked with the housing office at tmy uni and told them about the security issue it's not like i want to spy :) cuzif i want i wouldn't have told them about me being able to sniff packets . i just wanted to to know more about sniffing on the three floors cuz if u know how to do something then u can prevent it from happening . know how the cause to prevent its effect

thanx anyway :)

thanx guys :

You have broken the law... regardless of intent.

[decepticon_eazy_e]

You have broken the law... regardless of intent.

He has also broken the laws of English. That's got to be one of the most difficult posts to read ever posted here.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

[FroZen_FlaMe]

You have broken the law... regardless of intent

the law is broken if i did what i did without a premisson of the ppl that i sniffed thier packets but as long as i did it with thier premisson then i didn't break it :)

He has also broken the laws of English. That's got to be one of the most difficult posts to read ever posted here.

do u speak german or russian oh oh maybe u speak french or spanish

however, when u at least try to speak or even to understand my own languge then come and tell me if i broke the laws of English.

i'm not ashamed writting with ur own languge cuz i'm sure if i started to write in my own lang u wouldn't understand a word.

but thanx for the relpy by the way :)

[decepticon_eazy_e]

Fixed.

Do you speak German or Russian? Oh, oh, maybe you speak French or Spanish?

However, when you at least try to speak or even to understand my own language, then come and tell me if I broke the laws of English.

I'm not ashamed writing with your own language because I'm sure if I started to write in my own language you wouldn't understand a word.

Fixed. It has nothing to do with foreign languages, it's proper grammar. When you speak on a forum like this, we only see how you type and what you type. We have no other means of judgment beyond that. This is why you get judged the way you do. The little red underlines are there for your benefit and the benefit of others. Those special dots and lines are for ending sentences, not just making funny emoticons. I'm sorry to rant like this completely off topic, but it drives me nuts when somebody comes on with a post like that and then gets upset when people criticize him for it. This is not a text message on your cell phone, take the time to proof read your post if you want to be taken seriously. It's a good habit to get into before you enter into the job market. You mention you are in college, I have a hard time believing you get to write like that for assignments.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I'm just going to say what everyone else who read your post is screaming in their heads!

[Sparda]

the law is broken if i did what i did without a premisson of the ppl that i sniffed thier packets but as long as i did it with thier premisson then i didn't break it :)

Do you have that in writing?

[FroZen_FlaMe]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I'm just going to say what everyone else who read your post is screaming in their heads!

i really do appreciate ur advise and appreciate those who are screaming in their heads trying to read my post :).

i would like to tell them " u r all more than welcome to scream here instead of screaming in ur heads" so i can learn from u.

it's also important to mention that i'm soooooo happy that u were able to understand my last post and reply on it. that really means alot to me cuz it feels like my english grammer is improving or ur ability of understanding my english grammer is improving, either ways i'm so happy :).

and don't worry u'll not get flamed cuz it's frozen.

[FroZen_FlaMe]

Do you have that in writing?

unfortunatly not.

but still i agree with u that u should drop the subject :).

[Sparda]

unfortunatly not.

but still i agree with u that u should drop the subject :).

I'm not sure the message of what you have opened your self up to has been understood, though this may be due to the trolling responses to given advice.

Thought I have not read in to detail about law in your particular country, I'm sure it is just as illegal in your country as in the UK. Hijacking some ones web browsing session without malicious intent is a maximum 6 month jail time and £5000 maximum fine.

A side from the actual penalty of been found guilty of such a crime there is also the aspect of "Who is the prime suspect?". You are of course. You brought the problem to there attention, pointed out how to do it even did it in front of witnesses and without confirmation that you have been allowed to demonstrate this.

So, when (for lake of a better phrase) the shit hits the fan, who will most likely be first to have all there computer equipment seized by the police? I couldn't possibly imagine.

Is the reason for the dropping of the topic understood now?

[FroZen_FlaMe]

I'm not sure the message of what you have opened your self up to has been understood, though this may be due to the trolling responses to given advice.

Thought I have not read in to detail about law in your particular country, I'm sure it is just as illegal in your country as in the UK. Hijacking some ones web browsing session without malicious intent is a maximum 6 month jail time and £5000 maximum fine.

A side from the actual penalty of been found guilty of such a crime there is also the aspect of "Who is the prime suspect?". You are of course. You brought the problem to there attention, pointed out how to do it even did it in front of witnesses and without confirmation that you have been allowed to demonstrate this.

So, when (for lake of a better phrase) the shit hits the fan, who will most likely be first to have all there computer equipment seized by the police? I couldn't possibly imagine.

Is the reason for the dropping of the topic understood now?

sure sure :)

thank u very much for the warning and will put that in my mind next time i ask and post the Q

i understood ur messege that u wanted to deliver