toughbunny
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Everything posted by toughbunny
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Hi again, While I'm waiting for the two sdr's to ship from dealextreme (from what I can tell it takes a REALLY long time. Anybody have any experience with them?) I was going over what I need a bit and have decided on a few main obstacles. The antenna would obviously have to be highly directional and have really good range. Does anybody know how to make a really durable yagi (I think that would do the job) that meets these criteria and works on 2.4ghz? I am assuming I can chop the downconverters off the two aliexpress dipoles and use them on other antennae (do you think this would work?) As far as software goes, I have a notion of what I want it to do (pick up highest signal intensity from given device, triangulate it, get coordinates of point of intersection, map) but how to write this I do not know (sorry if I repeat myself). Any pointers on how or where I can find how to write this? There are also a few questions of practicality. Would it be possible to program the servos to track the signal (of course not directly, but by connecting the controller to some program I have no idea how to write) once it locks on to it? This way I could triangulate moving things as well as stationary ones. Also, I saw in one of your (madhak) projects that you have two antennae mounted on one tripod. Would this be possible with my project? Or would the accuracy not be great enough or the rotating antennae would get in the way of each other? Also, I thought it would be cool to have the computer used be a raspberry pi, this way I could just put everything on the tripod(s) and not have a bulky laptop in the way. Is the CPU powerful enough? Are there other worries about that? Thanks so much for all the helpful responses so far! P.S. You may have noticed I changed my name from swaggie to toughbunny. I'm not sure if it's much of an improvement, but this way I'm not part of the swag/YOLO movement which I try to keep out of. Anyway, it's still the same me!
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Inexpensive HAM base station
toughbunny replied to toughbunny's topic in SDR - Software Defined Radio
So the guys at the other forum had the idea to use a baofeng uv5ra-b, which seemed like a great idea from my uneducated point of view. Do you have any ideas for increased sensitivity, best antenna, or power amplification, or any pointers on what kind of range i should expect for instance? Also aiaf the baofeng seems like a bad idea don't hesitate to say so. Thanks! -
Inexpensive HAM base station
toughbunny replied to toughbunny's topic in SDR - Software Defined Radio
Hi, Just wanted to say that I posted the same question here: http://www.hamradioforum.net/threads/5189-Inexpensive-HAM-station if anyone is interested in following that, but I'm still open to responses here. Thanks! -
Hi everybody, I just recently discovered HAM radio. I haven't gotten my license yet but I'm studying for it. Meanwhile, I've been doing some research as to setting up my base station. My goal is to be able to transmit and receive on VHF and UHF bands, and HF would also be great but is not necessary. As I did my research, I realized that there are many routes to my goal, but the ones I've found are very expensive. I am looking for something under 300 dollars, preferably 200, including antenna, transceiver, coax, key, microphone and anything else that is necessary. It would be great if any of you know where to get this stuff for cheap or have any advice in general about this. Anyway, Thanks! P.S. If hak5 is not the right place to post this, please tell me immediately and I'll move the topic to another site. I would hate to be a nuisance. I just really loved the responsive and helpful community here.
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Hi again, This is probably useless but I was just reading over my last comment and realizing how many mistakes there are so sorry about that. I wrote it late at night from my phone so I wasn't totally lucid at the time. Sorry again!
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Hi, I think i coule find a way around the problem of phones looking for ap's in bursts if I knew how often it sends out a request, then adjusted the servo speed to that. The way I see it, I think it would be a lot more strait forward to do it with the lines instead of the circles, because not only would I only have one possible location, but I also wouldn't have to work around all this environment attenuation stuff, as I wouldn't need to estimate the distance to the target but just where the strongest signal from it is from. Please orrect me if I'm wrong. Software wise, there is one major thing I really have no idea how to do, which is filtering out the results by MAC address. Also, if you have any specific pointers or reference links in general about composing this software, that would be incredibly helpful, because I am really getting scared by this part. Just for the mapping, I imagine I would use google earth, but apart from that... I was also wondering if a raspberry pi could be the computer attached to the whole setup (I'm guessing not, I think I would need way more CPU for the sdr decoding, but thought I'd ask.) About the antennas, do you think I could cut the downconverters of the two mmds and attack them to two DIY yagis instead? This way I wouldn't have to screw around with reflectors and stuff making it a lot more compact and more portable and rotate-able and easier and prettier. Thanks so much!
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Hi, A few questions. Would it be easier to do this with MAC address instead of ssid, because I beleive the cells send these out, so I wouldn't have to go through an AP. Also, how would I assess the signal strength? Wouldn't a regular wifi card just scan the network I'm currently connected to? Is it necessary to do this with circles, if I try with MAC addresses, or could I not just draw a line towards wget the signal is strongest? How would I filter the brute radio signals by MAC address 10 times a second in this case, I don't believe I could decode them that fast. And finally, would I actually have to take a physical map and pencil and draw a two circles or lines, or is there some way of composing scripts that would automate this? Thanks!
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Hi, I did some thinking about the software part (please tell me if I should take this elsewhere, I don't want to be a nuisance) and this is what I think I want it to do: First scan for ssids in the 2.4ghz range, so I know what is availae to triangulate. Then analyze the signal from the sdr, decode probably with gnu radio, and say every 10th of a second pick out the signal and signal intensity originating from a certain preset device (ssid), then store all the information and go through it to pick out the reading where the signal is strongest. It would then, (I guess based on the time at which the strongest signal was recorded relative to the beginning of taking all the readings, assuming the servos are set to move the same way every time) take the servo coordinates (if such a thing exists) from the point at which the strong signal was recorded and turn them into geographical directional coordinates on a map. It would do the same thing on the other side with the other antenna, and draw different direction coordinates on the same map. I guess it would calculate the linear equation based on a north axis and a west axis and solve for the point of intersection. Unfortunately, I really have either no idea or a very foggy notion of how to do this, sorry if I made myself out otherwise. Any advice? This, I think, is going to turn out to be the trickiest part, because I really am completely in the dark on this one. Thank you so much!
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Sorry, I said the rg123 looked nice. I meant rg213. Thanks!
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Ok hi again, I just wanted to say I did a little more research and updated my materials list, I'm taking this mmds: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Best-Selling-MMDS-Down-Converter-L-O-1998Mhz/1651236048.html instead of the other because I'm currently in France and the shipping cost to France for the other one is 50 bucks. I also found this chart: http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/coax.html showing different coax cables, and I thought the rg123 looked nice ($13.35 for 15 feet, is that about the length I need?). Thanks for the help!
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Hi again, Sorry about the long silence. I have read the material you advised, and believe I have grasped the basics. I am now wondering about the separation ( in distance) that the two antennae would have to have between them in order to have reasonable accuracy. Oh and I feel stupid asking, but I've been assuming I would just use generic coaxial cable to link the components? I was also wondering if free 3d maps exist for purposes of 3d triangulation, and how 3d coordinates would work, geographically, and also if there is a way to get a 3d plan of a building to see, for instance to see what floor a building is on. I'm also sorry to say that I have little experience with the software part (maybe I should bring this part elsewhere?), but madhak you said you were working on something similar, so maybe you have some pointers? Thanks! P.S. I am still stuck on the reflector, but I think I can make something reasonably good out of chicken fence and balsa wood. The problem is that I think the largish balsa wood frame that is necessary would get in the way of the rotation of the antenna (still not quite sure about that part either), would be quite bulky, and might be too light for the antenna itself, which looks rather heavy.
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Hi, I would still love to know whether the power injector is DIY-able, because that would be more fun, but I did some research and found this little thing ( http://m.aliexpress.com/item/670968406.html?tracelog=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail ) for around $9 including shipping! Also, check this out if you are interested ( http://blog.cyberexplorer.me/2014/01/sniffing-and-decoding-nrf24l01-and.html?m=1 ) , it basically has exactly what I was looking for, which is a list of all the parts except for the antenna for cheap. I actually have a question about the reflector: could I use a cheap colander or sieve along with the mmds from aliexpress as a reflector? How long a range would I get with this? Thank you!
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Hi, As I mentioned in the first post, my goal is more to learn about radio in a fun way than triangulating wifi devices in the most efficient way possible. This is why I am reluctant to move away from the sdr and the downconverters and such. Also, if I do it with the radio antenna instead of a USB wifi adapter, I can use the same apparatus with slight modifications (I hope) to triangulate other things than wifi devices (not sure what). Furthermore, one goal of the project is to have decently long range, and I think a grid antenna would achieve this better than a colander (would it, actually? It seems intuitive that it would, but you know better). This is why I have been clinging to the complicated radio stuff, and I'm sorry if it seems like I have been systematically rejecting your suggestions. Here is my question: is a power injector something DIY-able, or is there no alternative to paying 100 bucks for it. Thank you!
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Hi all, first I want to thank you for the near-immediate and helpful responses. Thank you. Secondly, I have some questions. Do you have any particular suggestions as to what I should search for regarding the servos in order to get a tutorial on what I have to do? Because I literally have no experience with servos whatsoever. Also, I found this tutorial ( http://www.zero13wireless.net/foro/showthread.php?248-Fabricacion-de-una-Parrilla-para-una-Antena-de-Wireless ) on making a grid reflector. Does this seem suitable? Also, the tutorial is unfortunately in Spanish, and google translate is acting up on this. Do you know of a similar tutorial in English (please don't spend hours searching for this, I'm sure I could manage with google translate but English would make it easier). Cooper, thanks for the colander idea, but I think it would actually be less expensive to do it with the downconverter + antenna thing and a DIY reflector, as that is the cheapest downconverter I have found. Also this would have longer range and be more directional (I think? Correct me if I'm wrong). Madhak, are you sure that I need a power injector for the downconverter? Because not only are they 100 bucks, but in the installation guide in the description of the product on the website this is not mentioned. Again thank you so much for the great help!
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Hi, I decided to use the antenna + downconverter compound and was wondering if this: http://www.cafepress.com/mf/68911621/parabolic-solar-cooker-_sticker?utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=794924771&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=sem-cpc-product-ads&utm_content=search-pla&productId=794924771 would work as a makeshift dish to make it more directional, because it's a lot cheaper than buying a real dish. Also, you mentioned a power injector. What is this, and how would I set it up? I'm also assuming that I only need one servo controller for both antennae. Is this right? Thanks! P.S. I'm sorry I didn't review the first materials list before posting it.
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Sorry, I put the list begins here marker too low. Just move it one place up Thanks!
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Hi, thanks for your help. I did some research and made a list of parts and tools that I will need. Please let me know if you have any suggestions to make it cheaper, better, or if there is anything missing or wrong with it. Here it is: Directional antenna: ($12.99) x2 http://www.meritline.com/m/showproduct.aspx?productid=74953 LIST BEGINS HERE Downconverter: ($12.35) + shipping: $9.2 http://m.aliexpress.com/item/670265064.html?tracelog=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail From article: http://www.rtl-sdr.com/tag/downconverter/ Sdr: ($19.99) https://hakshop.myshopify.com/products/software-defined-radio-kit-rtl-sdr Total: 57.52 LIST ENDS HERE Thanks so much!
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Hi again, So from the information I've gathered so far, here is what I would do to do this with wifi (please correct any mistakes, and I will ask questions in parentheses): I would get two of these antennas: http://www.meritline.com/m/showproduct.aspx?productid=74953 and put them each on a motor so they rotate. I would then get a digital tv down converter (where would I find this? I don't have one on my roof) and wire the two antennae to it (how?) and then wire the downconverter to the Hakshop sdr kit (again, how?). Here comes the part I really don't know how to do at all: I hook the SDR kit up to my laptop and look for the proper frequency (how?) and see what's coming from the antennae (tcpdump? Wireshark? As far as I know these only work if you are on the same wifi network as your target) Anyway, using a software tool, I find the mac address of my intended target, and filter my results to that. I gathered from your diagrams that I would need to have both antennae pointing towards the target cell phone, which means that I would need to see in what direction the broadcast signal from the victim is strongest (do you know how to do this?) After that, it's all maths . Thank you do much!
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Oh and one more question (I'm really sorry I forgot to ask this in the last post): Wouldn't this be completely useless, as I could not control which phone I am triangulating, or have to be able to see the phone I am trying to triangulate? And won't there be strong gsm signals coming from all over the place, making any triangulating impossible? I think I would need some way of identifying the phone I am trying to triangulate. Thanks!
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Thanks! I think it would be considerably less (or more, I actually don't know) complicated to do this with gsm instead of wifi, because there is no router involved. How would I get the gsm signal strength of a broadcasting telephone? Is there even a way without having access to the towers? I don't think I would need to decrypt anything, because I am just going for signal strength and not actual information (or would I? I don't know). What specific program (if there is one) would I use for this? And would I need any hardware apart from the two antennae? And about this frequency scanning, how would I do it? Do you have any specific recommendations as to this hardware? As you can tell, I am completely unknowledgeable in this matter, so I'm sorry if I've made myself out otherwise or if this annoys you. Thanks so much for all of your kind help!!
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And just one more thing I forgot to ask: for the wifi triangulation, I would have to be on the same wifi network, otherwise I would just be triangulating the router, right? Thanks so much for all of the responses!
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Hi again, Do you have any suggestions as to the specific hardware and/or software to be used to pick up these broadcast gsm or wifi signals (and measuring their exact strength)? I am not interested in listening in on a conversation, or mitm, but merely measuring signal strenght. I was also wondering if there was a program already written to analyze the signal strength and direction data and draw the lines on a map for me. Thanks again!
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Hi all, I want to make it clear that I am completely uneducated in this matter. I was wondering if it is possible to triangulate a cell phone without being the government, and if so how. I have gathered that you would need some way of measuring the signal strength of a cell phone. How to do this, I do not know. I thought the hak5 would be the right place to ask about this. Thanks for any help! P.S. I also want to make it clear that there is genuinely no nefarious purpose for this project. It seems like a fun weekend project.
