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catohagen

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Posts posted by catohagen

    Karma Log - detailed description?

    in WiFi Pineapple Mark V

    Posted

    Karma seems to have problems fooling devices sold or with updated firmware after mid 2012, i made a detailed thread about it, trying to help find a solution and but unfortunately I was not taken very seriously by the developers and was basicly ignored or hushed down even some acknowledged that Karma doent work anymore, thread was here :

    https://forums.hak5.org/index.php?/topic/30411-issues-with-karma-in-mark-iv/

    but thread seems to have vanished from this forum.

    Karma does listen and getting the probes, but security got better with wifi devices and they no longer connect to Karma-created ssid's, meaning the advertised main selling point of the wifi pineapple is void, rendering the device useless for most users.

    Issues with Karma in Mark IV

    in WiFi Pineapple Mark IV

    Posted

    The device probably worked as advertised from 2008-2011 with the Karma functionality picking up probes and faking SSID's.

    The problem seems to be with the creators/sellers of the Pineapple, as i'm sure its a problem that they cant fix as easy as some bugs.

    Darren, Seb and moderators here seems fast and friendly to reply with faults they can handle, as if you start a script wrongly, or some command line arguments are wrong, shipping and packaging faults etc, they respond and fix these things within hours.

    I've seen many people asking about Karma, and usally no reply's about why it doesnt work and the thread dissapear from the front page,

    I tried and tested Karma with around 10 different phones and tablets and Karma never worked as advertised, I report my findings and would love to helped and debug any new development with fixing Karma.

    Instead my problems where ignored and I continue to research and borrow friends devices and discover that phones from around 2011 works instantly with Karma, or Karma works instantly with devices from around 2011. Not with devices from bought 2012-2013

    My intent with this thread where to help and put some light on this issue as Karma is cool as fuck, and I imagined I would have the Pineapple at home and everyone that visits would get internet access with their stored SSID's without touching some settingt or tapping an open wifi and that would just be cool :)

    Instead after weeks and more posts from others with the same issues, we get a reason from the creators why there is so silent, they are ready to announce a new hardware revision. But during the launch and after launch there are no mention of Karma, instead they remove the text in the Hak5 shop about Karma and how Karma works, they mention in a Google Hangout that 'some reports' say Karma isnt working, and then we get the speech from Darren about the 'landscape is changing' and 'cat and mouse game' and 'some tricks up our sleeve' but no mention of when or if a update is pending.

    If there was a update in the works, why not reply with this information in the thread several months ago ?

    If there was a update in the works, why not offer a 'devel' or beta version up for testing ? if not public testing but closed to users who care and know alittle bit about linux and have the knowledge to proper test stuff `?

    Why mention 'tricks up our sleeve' in the launch of the new hardware and not before the launch when this thread was started?, even a private message or email would do well if the need to keep the secret about the launch. Mentioning these new 'tricks' they have mid-launch for a new hardware revision seems questionable...

    Im certain that no such fix is in the works, as some of the points above would have made sense to do.

    I belive that they have no working Karma in development, the silence and lack of communication + the removal of the Karma advertisement in the Hak5 shop is proof of that.

    I have no idea if Darren or any Hak5 people makes a living out of this (ie. no other job), but I got the sense of 'hostility' from here even if my intent was good and be helpful on a resolve. Ofcourse if they make a living out of this and the product isnt working as advertised I wouldn't be happy either when reading about unhappy users, its bad for sales and bad for reputation...but the way they handled this wasnt the best way.

    Then the crusaders came around, defending...something I guess.....and nit-picking my arguments with really silly counter arguments...and thread was locked!

    They handled it as a corporation and not as a community friendly/driven project.

    Karma not working on mobile devices

    in WiFi Pineapple Mark V

    Posted

    Much like you've bought an older pineapple, it still bears the same packaging it had at release. Packaging isn't generally updated for a product through it's lifetime because that would be incredibly cost inefficient.

    I didnt buy an older pineapple, I bought it last month and started this thread the same month : https://forums.hak5.org/index.php?/topic/30411-issues-with-karma-in-mark-iv/

    At that time, last month the Mark IV was the current model and the Hak5 shop did have the description i included in post #14

    Your are really nitpicking and taking things out of context, you are comparing me buying a current model of a product to your sega mega drive upstairs as the same....

    Karma not working on mobile devices

    in WiFi Pineapple Mark V

    Posted

    The pineapple has evolve to something bigger than just Karma. Read the "Best Answer" and move on. :P

    Totally agree, but Karma or Jasager is one of the main features of the device, without it you cant really use any of the other stuff on the device, as you have to rely on people actually connecting manually to a new unknown open network.

    Karma not working on mobile devices

    in WiFi Pineapple Mark V

    Posted

    You need to read the original post a few times :)

    I said that it DOES work with Windows 7, but not on android 4.2.2 or iOS7, and I clearly selected Darren's post as the Best Answer.

    The pineapple has evolve to something bigger than just Karma. Read the "Best Answer" and move on. :P

    Yeah, sorry about that misreading :)

    Karma not working on mobile devices

    in WiFi Pineapple Mark V

    Posted

    Also, the very first sentence of the advert you linked says "most wireless devices", which is still true. Most wireless devices do still fall for karma.

    You are out of context, it says most 'Most wireless devices have network software to automatically connects to access points they remember', that refers to the operating system installed on the 'victim' devices, and has nothing to do with Karma.

    You'll see that the last 4 lines refers to the Karma bit, or atleast I do...

    Karma not working on mobile devices

    in WiFi Pineapple Mark V

    Posted · Edited by catohagen

    Well, you kind of proved my point really. If I had bought it this year,

    But you didnt buy your sega this year...?

    All I wanted was to get focus on this issue, as new customers are still asking about Karma, as orginal poster of this thread, it didnt work on his Win 7, Galaxy Note 2 and Iphone....yet he belived it would.

    The speech about 'landcape have evolved, vendors have adapted' should be mentioned in the Hak5 shop description about the Wifi Pineapple so people will know this before they order the device.

    Karma not working on mobile devices

    in WiFi Pineapple Mark V

    Posted · Edited by catohagen

    Do I even write english ?

    @scotthelme Did you buy that Sega Mega Drive new this year ? and did you honest belive it had cutting edge graphics if you bought it new in 2013?

    It doesn't work as it "used to be advertised", well of course not...Vendors have started to patch security flaws in their products.

    I bought the Mark IV in September this year...we're in October now...one month ago the Hak5 shop had descriptions about the Mark IV and about Karma telling 'Yes, i'm your network' etc......how where I suppose to know ofcourse it doesnt work ? See the hak5 shop I was reading in september when I ordered the Mark IV :

    QTIMBAv.png?1

    I posted in the Mark IV forums that Karma should be updated or the Hak5 shop description should be changed and maybe mention that Karma doesnt work well with newish devices....

    And vendors havent 'just' started patching...the 'patching' that gave Karma problems started mid 2012....thats 1.5 years ago, and you can search in the forums and find reports dripping in here around that time:

    https://forums.hak5.org/index.php?/topic/30113-clients-not-probingconnecting-to-karma-in-mk4-with-fw-281/?hl=karma

    https://forums.hak5.org/index.php?/topic/29973-karma-issues-with-android-fw-281-or-300/?hl=karma

    https://forums.hak5.org/index.php?/topic/29055-convert-probes-to-fake-networks/?hl=karma

    Look, Darren and Sebkinne have both confimed what I wrote about the Karma, both here and in the Mark V Google Hangout, linked here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-wCTAZAB9I&t=64m45s

    It just surprises me when more new customers ask or mention problems with Karma, people jump down my throat when I say the same thing Darren is posting here in the forums, I just say it straight out without the purple filter

    Karma not working on mobile devices

    in WiFi Pineapple Mark V

    Posted · Edited by catohagen

    Agreed rottingsun. I don't think it can be stated any more plainly. The Mark IV is not broken and neither is Karma. It is the device companies who have fixed the security flaw that Karma takes advantage of. It still works just fine against devices that were vulnerable to it when it was created. Apparently some people didn't do their homework before buying the Mk4/5 and they expect Hak5/Darren to develop and implement a fix more quickly because of it.

    I've never said the Mark IV or Karma is broken, i've said it doesnt work as advertised or used to be advertised, as they have removed the text that describes how Karma works on the Mark V now.

    I bought the Mark IV in september 2013 and the $129+shipping+tax is well over $200, and Karma doesnt do anything on the devices in and around my home.

    No i didnt apparently do my homework, but found several threads about problems with Karma reported by other members here, and few and no responses from the creators on issues reported nearly 1.5 years ago.

    So instead of leaving it and forget about it like most other buyers did, I simply wanted to shead some light on the issue and report my findings, and get the developers attention since they've belived everything was ok.

    I've got, Samsung Note2, Samsung Galaxy 2, Samsung Galaxy 3, HTC OneX, Nexus 7 tablet, Sony Xperia X10 and Ipad 3 here in my house with stored free wifi's and none of them connected to any Karma created ssid.

    So I started downgrading some of my devices until it worked, and found that Karma fooled Android 4.1.x but not 4.2.x

    For comparison, selliing the Mark IV with Karma and saying it works perfect in 2013, would be similar to sell a device with Winnuke. Yes Winnuke still works in 2013 and will lock up and display a BSOD on Win95 machines, Win NT and Win 3,.1 thats not patched or have port 139 firewalled :) Problem is nobody uses win95 anymore, and nobody uses android 4.1.x or the equivalent wifi security from pre 2012

    Karma not working on mobile devices

    in WiFi Pineapple Mark V

    Posted

    Has anyone seen Karma in action? It does work on Windows 7, but not on my Galaxy Note II 4.2.2 and iPhone 5s iOS7.

    My cellphones can only see the default Pineapple SSID.

    I do see their probe request on the logs asking for HomeNet, but the SSID doesn't show on the devices.

    KARMA: Probe Request from d8:a2:5e:95:9e:0d for SSID '2WIRE922'
KARMA: Probe Request from d8:a2:5e:95:9e:0d for SSID 'kimchigarden'
KARMA: Probe Request from d8:a2:5e:95:9e:0d for SSID 'Free WiFi'
KARMA: Probe Request from d8:a2:5e:95:9e:0d for SSID 'RESCOMP'
KARMA: Probe Request from d8:a2:5e:95:9e:0d for SSID 'jocelyn'
KARMA: Probe Request from d8:a2:5e:95:9e:0d for SSID 'AirBears'
KARMA: Probe Request from 38:aa:3c:f4:aa:a7 for SSID 'HomeNet'
KARMA: Probe Request from 00:0d:4b:3e:fb:57 for SSID '2WIRE150'
KARMA: Successful association of 50:32:75:a4:f7:2b
KARMA: Checking SSID for start of association, pass through Cisco-7999-guest
KARMA: Probe Request from 50:32:75:a4:f7:2b for SSID '2WIRE095'
KARMA: Successful association of 94:94:26:99:70:11
KARMA: Probe Request from 28:37:37:80:d4:fc for SSID 'Hilltop WiFi'
KARMA: Probe Request from 50:32:75:a4:f7:2b for SSID 'Cisco-7999-guest'
KARMA: Probe Request from 94:94:26:99:70:11 for SSID 'HomeNet'

    Your devices are too new and secure for Karma to work, only way you 'see' Karma working is if you create a new SSID to connect to on your device. Wifi security got improved in 2012, rendering Karma basicly useless on new devices.

    As a workaround for your existing stored 'free wifis' you can (if your phone are rooted) edit /data/misc/wifi/wpa_supplicant.conf and add 'scan_ssid=1' to the ssid's config you want Karma to fake/create, Now you can see Karma working on your existing stored SSID's.

    While this should be unnecessary for a pen-testing tool and the mentioned update Darren talks about should be higher priority and kicked out the door asap, as it seems people are still unaware about the Pineapple shortcommings and buys this device in good faith as a cool pen-tester tool that doesnt work fully as advertised on the Mark IV.

    For Mark V, they skipped the description about Karma and the 'Yes i'm your network' part... so I guess Mark V works fully as advertised.

    Although this is the forum of the new Mark V, you can read my thread in the Mark IV forums about Karma and how its useless on new devices : https://forums.hak5.org/index.php?/topic/30411-issues-with-karma-in-mark-iv/

    Issues with Karma in Mark IV

    in WiFi Pineapple Mark IV

    Posted

    wait what? i don't think i get what you're saying.

    Are there no SSID's in a list by default?

    Also im curious as to what the black and white is is for

    im guessing black list is to reject any SSID's in the list and the white list im guessing is to only allow SSID's in the list to connect.

    Still kinda curious to know where the SSID names are saved on the Mark VI.

    There are no default list, because its not needed, Karma just listens for 'hellos' in the wifi spectrum from laptops and smartphones and 'fakes' the SSID's thats open.

    At home i can turn on the Pineapple and get 15-20 different SSID's in karma.log after a few minutes, from my kids phones and laptops

    , the log file are in /tmp/karma.log and I belive its lost if you reboot or poweroff your pineapple.

    To keep the list of SSID's you have there, you need to copy or cat the log file to a usb stick or upload it with curl to a remote server.

    Issues with Karma in Mark IV

    in WiFi Pineapple Mark IV

    Posted

    Wait so let me get this straight you have to manually add each SSID you want people to auto connect to?

    I was under the assumption that didn't need a list of access point names.

    Where is the log file located for the SSID list for karma so i can just paste in a list of popular SSID names from like http://wigle.net

    Be nice if someone could start making a list of common SSID names that we can load and then append to it from the Karma Config.

    You only have to do this for older devices. Until Karma is fixed the newer smartphones(most likely those after mid 2012) will not connect.

    The probes are sent and karma.log is full of ssid's picked up, both secured and unsecured ones, so you could manually change ssid.

    Something isn't quite right...

    in WiFi Pineapple Mark IV

    Posted

    Karma will not work efficient in a known environment, you should for best results create a new open 'free wifi' with your phone hotspot, connect your laptop to it, then turn off the 'free wifi' hotspot but also turn off your home wifi to simulate a foreign environment, the Pineapple with Karma enabled and working should then pick up the broadcast probes your laptop sends, and create the fake ssid and fool yor laptop into connecting.

    Just ordered the Mark V

    in WiFi Pineapple Mark V

    Posted

    I'm sure someone said its something to do with the way karma responds, so guess it would be on a software level. I would guess it would be more financially viable to patch the mk4 software and release a upgrade.

    The pineapple MK4 is still a good piece of kit, and I hope development either by the team or the community continues, not trading mine in!

    My first thoughts too, but seeing 'new hardware opens a world of possibilities' I got a feeling they rather sell us the new hardware than patching the old hardware.

    Just ordered the Mark V

    in WiFi Pineapple Mark V

    Posted

    The landscape changes and we adapt. The new hardware opens a world of possibilities for more advanced attacks. We'll be getting into it more on the live stream Wednesday and we want everyone to be a part of this next generation.

    So its some chip or something in this new hardware (Mark 5) that enables Karma/Jasager to say 'Yes, i'm your network' to new devices/smartphones running recent versions of their operating system.

    I bought the WiFi Pineapple Mark IV Pro for $149.99 early september, and since this hardware apparently isnt capable of making Karma/Jasager work with Android 4.3 nor IOS 6 or 7 (but reading the Hak5 shop description of the wifi pineapple, I belived it would) will the Hak5 team/shop do trade-in's so I and other customers that bought this device in 2013 can return Mark IV's that worked properly in 2011, and get this new upgraded hardware that enables Karma/Jasager to work ?

    Issues with Karma in Mark IV

    in WiFi Pineapple Mark IV

    Posted · Edited by catohagen

    It seems to me that people are expecting a "hack-in-a-box" product. With security and pentesting, that is never the case. What "we" as white/gray hat hackers do is point out flaws in the way things are done. It seems that Apple and Android have caught on to type of the issues that are pointed out with the current way karma works. Now we figure out how to exploit the new way they are doing things.

    If you don't understand this, you are in the wrong field or have purchased the pineapple for the wrong reason.

    The purpose of this thread was not to bash the project, it was just to point out issues about Karma(the main selling point of the device) and seeing 4-5 similar threads in here with little or no response.

    I know Karma works per se, it creates ssid's based on probes. Its just that devices these days doesnt send out the kind of probes Karma pick up anymore, Karma worked in much better in 2011...so I feel the desciptions about the Wifi Pineapple in the Hak5 Shop is a little misleading.

    If a hobby 'hacker' understand the cat/mouse game around Wifi security and how Karma works or not is one thing, but the text written in the Hak5 shop about how Karma works will convince pretty much anyone.

    I bought the Pineapple to support this cool project as i already installed the Pineapple firmware into the tiny TL-WR703N router, but if i've known what I know now and how you laid out the current state, I wouldn't pay 129 USD for something that didnt worked today (but worked 3 years ago)

    I have no interesst in MITM attacks anywhere, but the Pineapple is a cool project, and i've been configuring and flashing dd-wrt/openwrt/tomato into routers for over 10 years so its a hobby of mine :)

    I figured I could give all my friends and guests wifi access with the Pineapple as their phones would just connect and it would be cool to show them how they are connected to wifi in a hotel they visited sometime in another country.

    But no devices connected....but we know why now....

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