WiFi Pineapple battery

[snakey]

ethics in any form is not a good thing in computers. i see gerards point and his work with a wireless network for all is a sick idea that i would support any day of the week but arguing a conscience matter is not going to get you anywhere.

i'd say if everything on the show was white hat straight edge the show would suck more then it does and i wouldn't even waist any of my over priced, poorly provided and extremely capped internet on downloading it.

Your treading a thin line now hak5 crew. Go grey or white don't go in between. You will lose fan's for it but it will stop arguments like this one.

[Matt Lestock]

An internet crime report?

I'd be interested to see exactly what you're filling out, as we haven't done anything ON the internet. :D

Everything we've done with the FON has had to do with wireless networks which are NOT connected to the internet.

So, what's the basis of your claim exactly? :D

Matt

[digip]

What proof do you have that anything illegal was done?

And so i have done that, and the advice given is to fill out a Report Internet Crime on the FBi homepage so i just done that.

Gerard

I'd like to know what the report says, if you don't mind sharing. What crime are you accusing them of committing?

They haven't physically filmed themself committing any crime. Only thing they filmed is themself talking about what it does and how it works. There is no crime in that nay more than the news reporting on how people use their wifi routers for illegal purposes, and I see that on TV a lot.

Showing it in use is not even a crime either, so long as it is in your own network for testing.

[Swathe]

As said earlier, I beleive in knowing every potential use fo revery bit of hardware you own. Would FON deny a sale of the router because the customer will not be accepting the the user agreement? We all are aware that things on hak5 can venture into the grey and black areas but anyone who wants to know how to protect their network needs to know what can happen. And what about the customers of the wificafe?I don't recall if this has been mentioned but they should have the sense to see which network they are connected to in the first place. Now repeat after me:

There is no patch for human stupidity.

[VaKo]

Can we all STFU until we actually have more information on this? Like a statement from the FON people or something. I'm sick of Matt and DeGrijze going around in pointless circles. Its boring and you've accomplished nothing.

[DeGrijze]

So, what's the basis of your claim exactly? :D

Pointed them out to the Wi-Fi Pineapples segment in where Darran clearly steaded he owns the Wifi network of the coffeeshop and the fact of promoting of how to setting up a honeypot crack your self.

And beside all of that a full copy of this forum tread.

Gerard

[tabath]

Pointed them out to the Wi-Fi Pineapples segment in where Darran clearly steaded he owns the Wifi network of the coffeeshop and the fact of promoting of how to setting up a honeypot crack your self.

And beside all of that a full copy of this forum tread.

Gerard

What a complete - ****ole. I agree Vako - lock this thread until DeGrize gets real. :lol:

[Matt Lestock]

I can say anything on camera Gerard, nothing preventing me from saying that my name is George. There's no proof that the fon was even on at the coffee shop.

- So Point 1 is invalid.

Setting up a honeypot is not illegal, it's logging and utilizing the data that can turn illegal. something which we didn't do.

- So Point 2 is invalid.

Copy of this forum thread?

- Yea, I'm not even going to justify that.

[digip]

I <3 DeGrijze. When he gets behind an idea, he sticks with it to the very end. I agree with VaKo, and I already stated this a few psots back, lets ee what Fon says and what their standpoint is on it.

[DeGrijze]

@ Matt and the Hak.5 crew,

We will wait and see.

I have done my part so far its now in the hands off the law.

And out of respect for VaKo i will stop now responding to this forum.

Regard Gerard

[Swathe]

This thread reeks of fail.Reporting people to the law, in a HACKING community. I'm astonished! Bottom line:

Hacking/security show=hacking/security segments. Period

[addis0n]

So I went to the fon site, added a fon router to my cart and hit checkout. The site said I had to create an account. At the bottom you find find a check box saying you agree with these three links I have listed here.

Terms of Use of the FON Service

Privacy and Data Protection Policy

Terms and Conditions of Use of FON Ads

Now, if they got these routers for free and they were shipped directly to them with out having to go through the website they wouldnt have to sign up for an account. So they are not part of the fon community at this point. They open one and without connecting it to the internet flash it with a custom firmware, no packets go back to fon hq. At this point they had no communication with the fon community, if you read through all three pdf's youll see that everything in there is referring connecting to the community.

When I bought my fon router the second the package was in my possession i sent an email to unsubscribe@fon.com (just like what the first pdf tells you to do) to cancel my account, from there it wasn't a paid for community box, it was a paid for personal box. A box to call my own, and thats the great thing about hacking be it white/gray/black at the end of the day you should be able to do whatever you want with hardware you paid for.

These devices are not in limited supply, demand goes up and they make more. Theres no +/- to the fon community, its as if we were never there.

*poof*

[jollyrancher82]

Or you can google for it,

Its not that a big of a secret.

Personaly i just like to see that people just use the Fon routers for what there mend for and thats charing your internet connection, and if you are not content with the Fon router or rules just give your fon Router to someone thats willing to share its internet connection and will accept the fon rules.

Gerard

If you're against modding hardware.. WHY exactly are you hanging around this community? This is one of the very meanings of "hacking", making something do something it shouldn't.

[Emilml]

This would be a fun project to do and use where i study, because there i study the celing is a bunch of squares about 30x30cm's and you can lift them, so make one of them and throw them up where people usually use their laptops would be cool to try :)

[Chris Gerling]

wow, this is amazing.

The FBI will just say "sorry you're a fucking retard" and that'll be that.

[VaKo]

Well, the US legal system is pretty shit...

[skynetbbs]

If you're against modding hardware.. WHY exactly are you hanging around this community? This is one of the very meanings of "hacking", making something do something it shouldn't.

he is NOT against modding hardware;

he made lot's of tutorials on how to improve La Fonera and create a good wireless antenna or making it suiteable for outdoor usage:

http://boards.fon.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&am...;hilit=workshop

he also has made a splendid guide on how to improve the eeepc

[jollyrancher82]

So.. the problem with this "hack" is...

[VaKo]

...a fon router is being used for something that is grayhat at best?

[digip]

So.. the problem with this "hack" is...

QFE

I think DeGrijze's problem with what they are doing is that they are doing somthing he deams unethical, or improper. Opinions aside, learning about how something works vs doing it against someone are two different things. Grey hat, white hat, or black hat, does not even really matter.

What the people watching decide to do with that knowledge and how they carry themself in RL is where the moral and ethical part come in to play. That is up to the end user, not the guy explaining it.

If it were a crime to disclose something or show this kind of stuff, then Smoocon, toorcon, Defcon, etc, would all be banned and shutdown. Even the recent ruling on the MIT subway payment system bypassing got reversed and the judge said the researchers were allowed to distribute their material and information. Knowledge and Information are not crimes! As soon as you make it a crime you stop innovation, learning and education for all mankind.

[DeepN1KE]

I wasnt going to post, but I thought perhaps I should. So....

Hacking is all about, understanding, investigating, experimenting with technology. This might be hardware, software what ever. Its all about getting a better understanding of a device, and very often helps improve something, understand and highlight flaws, and possibly find alternative purposes that may be of use anywhere else.

Personally as an InfoSec Professional, its my job to keep up to date with exploits, vulnerabilities and such like. I also have a passion for it, so I test things in my lab, and hack about with things.

I am not a black hat, I dont have intensions of owning a bank, or ripping off anyone, but that doesnt mean I dont like to explore things and gain knowledge. I am also an Adult. So I can make my own mind up about what I am doing, I am my own man as it were.

So just because someone posts something on the web, or on a TV show, or in a book, doesnt mean I am going to go an use it for bad.

HAK5 crew, personally keep up the good work, alot of the show is interesting, and fun. Its not all my bag, but thats just how things are. I wouldnt be over worried about this guy, but it does bring to light some peoples intentions, and their over reactive nature.

Finally (I know I am banging on) people on the forums are obviously entitled to their own view and opinions, but please do a sense check before banging on about something so trivial. Slow down on making crazy assumptions, as you just make as ASS out of yourself.

[Swathe]

I wasnt going to post, but I thought perhaps I should. So....

Hacking is all about, understanding, investigating, experimenting with technology. This might be hardware, software what ever. Its all about getting a better understanding of a device, and very often helps improve something, understand and highlight flaws, and possibly find alternative purposes that may be of use anywhere else.

Personally as an InfoSec Professional, its my job to keep up to date with exploits, vulnerabilities and such like. I also have a passion for it, so I test things in my lab, and hack about with things.

I am not a black hat, I dont have intensions of owning a bank, or ripping off anyone, but that doesnt mean I dont like to explore things and gain knowledge. I am also an Adult. So I can make my own mind up about what I am doing, I am my own man as it were.

So just because someone posts something on the web, or on a TV show, or in a book, doesnt mean I am going to go an use it for bad.

HAK5 crew, personally keep up the good work, alot of the show is interesting, and fun. Its not all my bag, but thats just how things are. I wouldnt be over worried about this guy, but it does bring to light some peoples intentions, and their over reactive nature.

Finally (I know I am banging on) people on the forums are obviously entitled to their own view and opinions, but please do a sense check before banging on about something so trivial. Slow down on making crazy assumptions, as you just make as ASS out of yourself.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!

[Darren Kitchen]

DeGrijze,

I can't change your mind about the ethics of the Wi-Fi pineapple / Jasager device. You've obviously made that up and I guess I've gotta give you credit for sticking to your guns.

However, I must state a few things about the project.

First of all at the coffee shop the device wasn't even armed -- it wasn't set to associate any clients with the AP with DHCP. Hell, it wasn't even on. (on a side note it now smells like fruit)

Also the Jasager project is intended for penetration testers. Obviously I'd never advocate using the device in an illegal manner.

For security professionals, educators, researchers, or systems administrators it's a great tool.

Also, it's nothing new. Honestly the Karma project has been around for a while. See here: http://theta44.org/karma/index.html -- Jasager just puts it together on the Fon with a nice, extensible, ajaxy interface.

You're basing all of your opinions on the first in a multi-multi-part series which looks sorta like this:

- Introduce the project / gather feedback / build awareness

- Demo the device in a controlled environment / how it works

- Building your own

- Interview with developer

- Defending yourself from honey pots like this

- Expand and extend

Now I must say I understand where you're coming from on the Fon community thing. The more people that use the Fon routers they own for the Fon community Wi-Fi the better. However, like others have said above, we haven't broken any EULAs or laws here and educating our audience about tech is just what we do.

[nicatronTg]

@DarrenKitchen perfect way of saying it.

We aren't saying 'put this thingy into your backpack and see how many credit cards you have in an hour', but to say 'look at this! We now have a reason to teach our IT department to use a static connection instead of DHCP.'

I personally think gadgets like the FON are 'harmless little hack-in-a fruit's. They don't do much harm, unless otherwise specified...

[DeGrijze]

@ Darran,

Its noting against you peronaly.

And like i mentioned befour its out of my hands in the hands of the law now.

I brook my word to VaKo just and only to give you (Darran) a reply.

And ones again out of respect for VaKo i will not response any more in this topic.

Best of luck

Gerard