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wireless network


Lord_Rob
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im sitting here leeching on some ones wireless network and i cant figer out how to access the other computers on the network i know when im at school or work i can see the outhers in my network workplaces why am i not seeing them here?

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[me=Sparda]rereads original post.[/me]

Ah, you mean you can't see them on the unprotected network rather then your schools network.

So my first comment about this is that your schools network is poorly configure and who ever set it up needs firing

My second comment is that the wireless network you are connected to is likely to be used intermittently since the person who plugged it in doesn't know about it.

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im sitting here leeching on some ones wireless network and i cant figer out how to access the other computers on the network i know when im at school or work i can see the outhers in my network workplaces why am i not seeing them here?

Sparda, couldnt it just be hes not on the same workgroup? and hence he should obtain an IP of the wireless rounter, view the one he has gained, and processable ping the IP range underneith his?

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im sitting here leeching on some ones wireless network and i cant figer out how to access the other computers on the network i know when im at school or work i can see the outhers in my network workplaces why am i not seeing them here?

Sparda, couldnt it just be hes not on the same workgroup? and hence he should obtain an IP of the wireless rounter, view the one he has gained, and processable ping the IP range underneith his?

ye, of course the work around there is to revers the polarity of the neutron flow :P

Perhaps I'm the stupid one (most likely) but I think you misunderstand how windows does the whole "I can see all these other windows computers" thing.

A brief description of how it works is below:

So, the first thing windows does when it detects that it is physically connected to a network is it sends out a DHCP broadcast request on that network adapter. If it doesn't receive a response you get the lovely "Network connection has limited or no connectivity" message. If it does get a response it assigns the given IP address in the DHCP response to that adapter. So at this point the network connection is fully functional and providing the DHCP response it received defined a default gateway and DNS server and the default gateway is fully working and the dns server is fully working, it should beadlebe able to access the internet.

So, now that 'every-thing' is working, windows takes it to the next step, it starts looking for other computers on the network. It looks for computers by sending broadcast (I believe) UDP (don't think it's TCP) packets that say in them "I'm running windows, I'm assigned to work group MSHOME, if you are also assigned to this work group please responsed and tell me all the information you are willing to give me". Every-thing that a windows computer will willingly give up is the names of all thereits shares and the names of all thereits printers and the version of windows. This feature (and for once it definitely is a feature) drives me mad and I have no choice but to disable it on all my computers. :P

In my experience I have run into people basically freaking out becasue there router lights are always blinking when nothing is downloading and the computers are virus free etc. andbut the lights are always blinking becasuebecause windows sends out these broadcasts every couple of seconds. This feature can also cause network issues on large networks. At my university, when you boot Linux on one of theretheir computers, in the space of half an hour it will receive like 100MB worth of packets the majority of which are these broadcasts that are just unnecessary in an active directory situation. Also, this is how windows tries to resolve windows computer names (as opposed to host names), which is why it can take so long for it to either find the computer name or time out entirely.

Throwing a WINS server onto the network and pushing out it'sits IP via DHCP makes a huge difference. Then, instead of using broadcasts, it just asks the WINS server. Then WINS server then turns around and says "It's this IP", or "It doesn't exist" rather thenthan waiting for UDP broadcasts. And it's a one liner in the Samba config (Only windows server editions can be WINS server if your not using not-windows).

VaKo, Moonlit (all other admins)... feel free to spell check and proof read that lol

Cooper: You get a B for effort and a D for execution. Report to the principal's office tomorrow.

Reading a more grammatical, spelling and punctually accurate version of what I wrote made me realize I missed out the key point of what I was writing, Computers running windows can be on the same network with the same subnet and not 'see' other computers running windows becasue they don't respond to the broadcasts do to not having the same work group name. Also, any good firewall would instantly brake this system, rendering this feature out dated (as in this system has been around since windows 3.11 for workgroups) and useless.

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A brief description of how it works is below:

So, the first thing windows does when it detects that it is physically connected to a network is it sends out a DHCP broadcast request on that network adapter. If it doesn't receive a response you get the lovely "Network connection has limited or no connectivity" message. If it does get a response it assigns the given IP address in the DHCP response to that adapter. So at this point the network connection is fully functional and providing the DHCP response it received defined a default gateway and DNS server and the default gateway is fully working and the dns server is fully working, it should beadlebe able to access the internet.

So, now that 'every-thing' is working, windows takes it to the next step, it starts looking for other computers on the network. It looks for computers by sending broadcast (I believe) UDP (don't think it's TCP) packets that say in them "I'm running windows, I'm assigned to work group MSHOME, if you are also assigned to this work group please responsed and tell me all the information you are willing to give me". Every-thing that a windows computer will willingly give up is the names of all thereits shares and the names of all thereits printers and the version of windows. This feature (and for once it definitely is a feature) drives me mad and I have no choice but to disable it on all my computers. :P

In my experience I have run into people basically freaking out becasue there router lights are always blinking when nothing is downloading and the computers are virus free etc. andbut the lights are always blinking becasuebecause windows sends out these broadcasts every couple of seconds. This feature can also cause network issues on large networks. At my university, when you boot Linux on one of theretheir computers, in the space of half an hour it will receive like 100MB worth of packets the majority of which are these broadcasts that are just unnecessary in an active directory situation. Also, this is how windows tries to resolve windows computer names (as opposed to host names), which is why it can take so long for it to either find the computer name or time out entirely.

Throwing a WINS server onto the network and pushing out it'sits IP via DHCP makes a huge difference. Then, instead of using broadcasts, it just asks the WINS server. Then WINS server then turns around and says "It's this IP", or "It doesn't exist" rather thenthan waiting for UDP broadcasts. And it's a one liner in the Samba config (Only windows server editions can be WINS server if your not using not-windows).

VaKo, Moonlit (all other admins)... feel free to spell check and proof read that lol

Cooper: You get a B for effort and a D for execution. Report to the principal's office tomorrow.

Reading a more grammatical, spelling and punctually accurate version of what I wrote made me realize I missed out the key point of what I was writing, Computers running windows can be on the same network with the same subnet and not 'see' other computers running windows becasue they don't respond to the broadcasts do to not having the same work group name. Also, any good firewall would instantly brake this system, rendering this feature out dated (as in this system has been around since windows 3.11 for workgroups) and useless.

thats a very breif description Sparda

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thats a very breif description Sparda

The first two paragraphs of that was the description, every thing else was additional information. Would you like me to give you a brief description of what a broadcast is?

Brieife description follows:

It's your network subnet but instead of a valid IP address it ends in 255 (e.g. 192.168.1.255). This tells all intermediary devices between computers that the packets with this address are broadcast packets and are to be sent to every computer on the network. Some devices, however, do different things to the normal when they receive a broadcast packet. Routers, for example, drop them. Wouldn't that be fun, if routers didn't drop broadcast packets, and Microsoft had implemented the workgroups feature any way?

btw. that is actually a subnet broadcast, there is also 255.255.255.255 as another broadcast address, this is mainly used for DHCP requests.

:P

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:shock: hmm ill call it Sparda wins... Though what i was going for is, if u click My Network places, u will only see shared folders that are in ur workgroup.

Also programs like NetScan will be able to ID most of the computers on the network, unless there behind a firewall, then u can get some issues.

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I also think thay may have MAC Address Filtering Enabled. If it says "limited or no connection" and their is no security on the network it is probably MAC Address Filtering.

MAC address filtering will mean DHCP requests are blocked if they didn't come from from a computer with a trusted MAC address. hence "Limited or no connectivity".

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