Tetra Reboots when PineAP transmits anything (on 12v or USB)

[AmbientTech]

I have a new Pineapple Tetra (MK5.8) with a specific reset problem.

It can Recon just fine -- days without any issue, detecting all the right things.  But, the moment I enable any transmitters in PineAP, it reboots.

Here are the easiest steps to crash it:

1. Factory Reset on Firmware 2.5.4, do basic intro/configuration
2. Recon w/ Start PineAP for 30 seconds
3. Pick a client MAC
4. Deauth
5. BOOM, reboot and back to login

Or more typically:

1. Factory Reset
2. "Get Started", set basic configuration screen
3. Recon w/ Start PineAP
   1. Pick an SSID from Recon Scan Results ("PineAP Pool: Add SSID" and "PineAP Filter: Add SSID")
   2. Confirm that Filters show Clients Deny:None, SSID: Allow corpAP
4. Switch to PineAP tab, confirm PineAP Daemon: Enabled
5. PineAP checkbox Log PineAP Events, Save 
6. PineAP checkbox Client Connect/Disconnect Notifications, Save
7. PineAP checkbox: Broadcast SSID Pool, Save and
8. BOOM, reboots immediately on Save

Enabling Beacon Response, or Associations also crashes it.  Even a simple Deauth from Recon crashes it.

I have tried:

• Dozens of Factory Resets
• Minimalist configuration just to get it running (no special options/settings)
  • Get Started, set basic configuration
• Firmware recovery to 2.4.1
• Firmware upgrade to 2.5.4

This really feels like a power-related problem -- as if it resets when the second radio tries to Transmit.  Is there any other test I can do to confirm it?

Power supplies I have tried:

• The included 12v 2A AC Adapter (Intertek)  (preferred by Hak5 Forum users the world over)
• The USB Y-Cable with two supplies
• Two lab-grade bench power supplies set to 5.25V DC feeding each of the two MicroUSB ports on the Tetra
• Two USB Batteries
• A lab power supply at 12.0V with up to 3A of current.
• 13v power supply to see if connector/cable loss is an issue
• All THREE power supplies at once (12v 2A, 5v 2.5A, 5v 2.5A)

I really thought I'd find a power solution that runs it, but no.  I was able to see more the expected reboots when running under-powered single-USB supplies, but that's well-documented.

The highest consumption I've seen on 12v is only 0.7 Amps, far from the "24W" I was expecting.

One possibility is that a Tx power amplifier is messed up and surging huge current on any transmission from PineAP.  Does PineAP use a different transmitter or amp than anything else?  It could be a more general fault in the (regulated) power distribution in the Tetra, since it behaves the same on 5v or 12v supply.

I'm open to any ideas to debug this.. it's just a passive monitor otherwise.

Thanks!

[AmbientTech]

One more datapoint... I tried enabling Client AP, and no Ethernet.  It works just fine.

So the Tetra connects to Internet over WiFi to another AP, while providing its own AP/Management-AP for clients

 

This works fine.  Only the middle BLUE LED is on.  It does not reboot or crash.  Speedtest on a connected client works fine.

I don't know if this uses the same WiFi or Amplifier as a 'deauth' request, but I would have guessed yes.

[handletwo0nne]

Are you deauthing yourself?

[AmbientTech]

14 hours ago, handletwo0nne said:

Are you deauthing yourself?

Boy I hope not, but I would think the symptoms would be different.  In my case, the Tetra actually resets and goes back through the boot LEDs and all that. 

Most of the time, I'm connected via the USB Ethernet port anyway, so a deauth wouldn't mean much.

I am looking for some other way to test the radios.

[handletwo0nne]

Not an issue that I can experience.

How about an opkg update?

 

[AmbientTech]

24 minutes ago, handletwo0nne said:

Not an issue that I can experience.

How about an opkg update?

 

I haven't tried anything with opkg.  It's just the standard firmware (no modules).  Are there default pkgs that get upgraded with opkg between firmware updates?  Happy to try (anything).

[AmbientTech]

Does anyone have an internal block diagram or schematic for the Tetra?

It seems odd that the Secondary (Client) radio works fine, but when used in monitor mode, the deauth crashes it.

What radio sends out the Deauth?  Is there any way to test just that radio?

[Just_a_User]

7 hours ago, AmbientTech said:

Does anyone have an internal block diagram or schematic for the Tetra?

It seems odd that the Secondary (Client) radio works fine, but when used in monitor mode, the deauth crashes it.

What radio sends out the Deauth?  Is there any way to test just that radio?

Out of interest, as a VERY quick test. Does the TETRA act the same when the antennas are disconnected? don't do this for long as it could itself cause damage over time. So just enough to see if it triggers a reboot or not.

[AmbientTech]

7 hours ago, Just_a_User said:

 Does the TETRA act the same when the antennas are disconnected? 

Well that's interesting -- it did NOT reboot!  I took all 4 antennas off, Deauth three times, and nothing.. no reboot.

Then I put them back on, and it still doesn't crash!  What kind of voodoo is this?

Of course, it didn't actually deauth any of the clients either.. even with antennas back on.    There was no smoke, but..

[Just_a_User]

1 hour ago, AmbientTech said:

Well that's interesting -- it did NOT reboot!  I took all 4 antennas off, Deauth three times, and nothing.. no reboot.

If the unit is within its warrantee then contact hak5 support and explain the situation. I seem to remember a handful of units that had similar issue. I wouldnt repeat the test any more, unless hak5 support ask you to do so. @Foxtrot Incoming.

[Scott Doorey]

I'm having exactly the same issue with my tetra  which I got 2 weeks ago

[AmbientTech]

Well Scott, don't expect any help from Support.  They don't reply, and the thing just keeps rebooting.  The case gets a day older each day.

[JDL]

On 7/30/2019 at 11:23 PM, AmbientTech said:

Well Scott, don't expect any help from Support.  They don't reply, and the thing just keeps rebooting.  The case gets a day older each day.

Did Hak5 support ever respond and get you a replacement? I am considering buying more hardware they just teased for next week, but if this is the support I can expect, money will go elsewhere. 

[AmbientTech]

13 minutes ago, JDL said:

Did Hak5 support ever respond and get you a replacement? I am considering buying more hardware they just teased for next week, but if this is the support I can expect, money will go elsewhere. 

Nope, no response, no replacement, no workaround.

I wouldn't buy any hardware form them unless it's through a vendor that accepts returns.  And has a working support system  -- that would be great.  Read this forum -- nobody gets support.

I intend to hand-carry this Tetra garbage to their next Con and see if I can swap it out there.

[JDL]

@Darren Kitchen Any word on improving support?

[JDL]

3 hours ago, AmbientTech said:

Nope, no response, no replacement, no workaround.

I wouldn't buy any hardware form them unless it's through a vendor that accepts returns.  And has a working support system  -- that would be great.  Read this forum -- nobody gets support.

I intend to hand-carry this Tetra garbage to their next Con and see if I can swap it out there.

 I had a similar, but less impactful, experience. I bought the Plunder Bug at launch, emailed a series of technical questions about capabilities, got the response "our support staff will be reviewing this inquiry shortly – typically in 1-2 business days". That was 4.5 months ago. Never got another message. 

[AmbientTech]

Yeah, I think it's a form template or robo-response:Jaimie (Hak5)

Apr 28, 13:23 PDT

...

I am so sorry you are having trouble.

I'm looping you through to product-support.

The wording about "looping in" sounds the same as others have posted.

[ksm413]

@AmbientTech Did you ever find a resolution to your WiFi Pineapple reboot issue?

I think my Pineapple Tetra might have the same issue or at least the symptoms I'm experiencing are very similar.

If I boot up with no antennae attached, enable PineAP and then attach antennae, it seems to work as expected (at least for my one de-auth test).

Not sure the negative impact this has on the radios though and pretty sure it shouldn't be necessary.

I filed a support request and received the same email. Wondering If you think I should be expecting to wait at least 4.5 months for more of a response?

On 8/1/2019 at 2:51 PM, AmbientTech said:

Yeah, I think it's a form template or robo-response:Jaimie (Hak5)

Apr 28, 13:23 PDT

...

I am so sorry you are having trouble.

I'm looping you through to product-support.

The wording about "looping in" sounds the same as others have posted.

 

[Foxtrot]

Hi @ksm413

That definitely seems like a hardware fault - please send me your ticket number and I'll sort that out asap.

Thanks

[ksm413]

Thanks @Foxtrot. It's very much appreciated. 72281 (Assuming ticket number is the same as request number in the email).

I apologize if I'm being impatient.I intended to allow much longer since I only filed this over the weekend, until I read the reported experience by someone with a similar issue in this thread.

[AmbientTech]

I got a response!  I'm happy to report that Hak5 agrees mine is a hardware fault, and is processing an RMA replacement.  Took time, but hopefully can finally use the full power of this thing soon.  I'll post again when the replacement arrives and runs to spec.

[Scott Doorey]

i finally got a response after threatening to chargeback the credit card transaction. got a response from Darren who sent me another Ankor powercore. this changed nothing so waiting for next steps which sounds like it should be replacement of the unit. 

@Foxtrot - can you help out with my case (71806), same as everyone else.  

 

[Irukandji]

2 hours ago, Scott Doorey said:

i finally got a response after threatening to chargeback the credit card transaction.

Hey, I'm not happy with the new firmware either. 

But can you plug the tetra into a wall outlet and see what it does.

Secondary. Most of the staff members where at Defcon last week. 

[AmbientTech]

As the OP, I wanted to post here to say aside from the long delay in response, Hak5 eventually made good on my unit and replaced it without hassle.

The replacement Tetra MK5.8 arrived and works exactly as it should.

I put it through the paces of Deauth, transmitting, some Client/AP bridging, and it never rebooted (on wall-power 12v 2A adapter).  I left it up on Recon or PineAP SSID logging for seven days straight -- no reboots, solid uptime.  Range is solid, there are the usual software oddities reported by others, but it has not spontaneously rebooted.

This is on the shipped 2.5.4 firmware, not the new 2.6.

 

(Conversely the original RMA unit actually got worse over time, and eventually would reboot just at idle doing nothing, so perhaps it wasn't exclusively a Tx problem.)

I suppose the message is that if you have a spontaneously-rebooting Tetra, using the 12V 2A included wall power, don't give up -- get it fixed.  They might not be fast, but Hak5 did honor my warranty.   I'm stoked to have a working machine at last..