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Bob123

I have to vent

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You know I'm sorry but like others in the questions section I have to vent.  Is it just me or do others feel like Hak5 just made a huge slap in the face over the Packet Squirrel?  I purchased the Packet Squirrel 1 day after it came out.  Got the cool discount thinking I would stay priced like the Bash Bunny did.  Yet here we are and yesterday I received a black Friday email from Hak5 only to show that the Packet Squirrel has a better discount now.  So because I support Hak5 I get screwed?  I know this is petty and it's only a few $$$ difference but that's not the point I'm going for here.  This device came out, there are no real new community driven payloads for it,  there has been only 1 programming overview on it and it was a bit out there at best.  It's a cool device but I have to say I'm not impressed with Hak5 on this one.  I have always supported Hak5 and I just feel extremely let down on this one.  And I too agree with all of the others who have vented over the years and specially more recently.  Seems like the learning and the "hacking" has gone downhill big time.

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2 hours ago, Bob123 said:

"I purchased the Packet Squirrel 1 day after it came out."

"So because I support Hak5 I get screwed"

Although I understand some of your frustration I have to suggest this.

If you knew it was going to be a few $ cheaper in the future but you had to wait a few weeks while others tinkered, would you have waited? or would you have paid those extra few $ for early access?

Its a pretty common issue with all companies selling anything not just Hak5. In general early access is deemed a privilege worth paying for by the "early adopter" class of customer. I think sales of packetsquirrel's both before and after the black Friday sale support Hak5 equally. I think you payed for early access and have enjoyed that access. I know I have.

2 hours ago, Bob123 said:

there are no real new community driven payloads for it,

I think they are on the way. And not forgetting selling more packetsquirrels should further ensure this, bringing more contributors and people in general to the community.

2 hours ago, Bob123 said:

Seems like the learning and the "hacking" has gone downhill big time.

Maybe, maybe not, If you look at the youtube history a lot of its been done, im not sure if its best to redo old stuff and get into that repeating cycle just to freshen it up or modernize it. I would imagine new uncovered topics must be getting hard to pinpoint now for the show. Not to mention they have to walk a tightrope of legality :) especially these days and times we live in.

2 hours ago, Bob123 said:

there has been only 1 programming overview on it and it was a bit out there at best

"Lets code" type of shows are a new angle, and as such its kinda a journey of discovery. I think this is a nice direction/addition for the show, I have watched both of them so far and enjoyed them as a non developer. My "code" is limited and terrible at best and would make most dev's vomit uncontrollably. But that being said I am able to follow and with the help of pause button and google eventually understand. It has to be tricky to get the balance right when your audience has a VERY wide range of backgrounds, skills, knowledge and interests.

Personally I think Hak5 is doing a great job at evolving themselves. Long may it continue <3

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On 11/26/2017 at 2:34 AM, Just_a_User said:

If you knew it was going to be a few $ cheaper in the future but you had to wait a few weeks while others tinkered, would you have waited? or would you have paid those extra few $ for early access?

That's a pretty silly argument, I must say. When the PS was released it had the discount so that people were encouraged to buy it earlier on for a cheaper-than-normal price. The idea it was cheaper earlier, not more expensive.

On 11/25/2017 at 11:12 PM, Bob123 said:

...there are no real new community driven payloads for it...

That's not true. There are a number of them, and I understand a few big 'uns coming up.

I understand where he's coming from, and I'm not overly impressed with the price of such a cheaply-made gadget, but it's still a good gadget that has a community backing it, and Hak5 Support is pretty good, especially considering they're a 2-man job. The reason the PS lost a lot of hype a few weeks after it was released was because of the huge amount of hype to begin with for such a small gadget. Don't get me wrong - it's a great gadget and it's fun to play around with, but even I myself don't feel like I'm getting my money's worth out of it.

At the end of the day, it's your decision whether you buy it or not. I mean, as I said before, you can buy 10-20 (depending on the vendor) RPi Zeros for roughly the same price.

 

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4 hours ago, Dave-ee Jones said:

That's a pretty silly argument, I must say. When the PS was released it had the discount so that people were encouraged to buy it earlier on for a cheaper-than-normal price. The idea it was cheaper earlier, not more expensive.

Kinda out of context, I was referring to the release price, then the following black Friday further reduction.Although I understand your point. But I feel in general with electronics the price usually always goes down, never really up with time.

4 hours ago, Dave-ee Jones said:

I understand where he's coming from, and I'm not overly impressed with the price of such a cheaply-made gadget, but it's still a good gadget that has a community backing it, and Hak5 Support is pretty good, especially considering they're a 2-man job. The reason the PS lost a lot of hype a few weeks after it was released was because of the huge amount of hype to begin with for such a small gadget. Don't get me wrong - it's a great gadget and it's fun to play around with, but even I myself don't feel like I'm getting my money's worth out of it.

At the end of the day, it's your decision whether you buy it or not. I mean, as I said before, you can buy 10-20 (depending on the vendor) RPi Zeros for roughly the same price.

 

Although I have found 2x alternative SoC devices with similar spec none are as small/compact as the PS. I think this is partly what you pay for. there seems to have been some real R&D and design. Not just jumping on existing hardware,.

Dont forget now Hak5 added foxtrot and tesla to the dev team that should have a huge impact with quality and quantity of support and development and allow seb a day off now and then.

The real reason for the loss of hype was the delay in release due to a supply chain issue, So Darren told us in the YT vids. But that's life sometimes. S#&T happens, right.

Hardware choice is a VERY personal thing as we all have different preferences, competence, backgrounds etc.

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On 11/30/2017 at 3:20 AM, Sebkinne said:

Ha, good one.

Okay.  Enough screwing off.  Back to work!

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Nice to see no new videos at all on the site.  And that everyone can joke around and blow me off.  Oh my stuffs for sale if anyone wants it...

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5 hours ago, Bob123 said:

Nice to see no new videos at all on the site.

Hi Bob, there have been at least 2x vids posted on YT about 3d printing since your first post.

6 hours ago, Bob123 said:

And that everyone can joke around and blow me off

All of my counter arguments are valid, no joke. Not blowing you off, I actually address each point you brought up with valid responses.

6 hours ago, Bob123 said:

my stuffs for sale if anyone wants it...

Totally up to you. I'm sorry to hear, but at least someone else may get a bargain and make use of it.

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9 hours ago, Bob123 said:

Nice to see no new videos at all on the site.  And that everyone can joke around and blow me off.  Oh my stuffs for sale if anyone wants it...

It's sad to see that is just get joked of like you said. From my perspective, this device has been a disappointment.

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50 minutes ago, RazerBlade said:

It's sad to see that is just get joked of like you said.

You do see that the only joke here is about Seb not getting time off and even when he does get time off he still writes code? there isnt a single joke aimed at the original poster. Just to clarify.

In fact its nice to see Seb and Darren have read the post which in itself is good to see.

Edited by Just_a_User

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5 hours ago, Just_a_User said:

You do see that the only joke here is about Seb not getting time off and even when he does get time off he still writes code? there isnt a single joke aimed at the original poster. Just to clarify.

In fact its nice to see Seb and Darren have read the post which in itself is good to see.

Damn. Didn't now you were that light headed

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Thank you RazerBlade.  And Foxtrot my intentions were not to cause this.  I just simply wanted to point out that while yes there are NEW hak5 videos out, none of them have been on the packet squirrel.  Recently.

And since back in 2003 when I started purchasing items from hak5...they have never run a sale on a new product followed by an even better sale due to a holiday.  Prices may have fallen over time or may have even gone up over time but never a quick jump like this. 

I for one was just a bit upset that it felt like a slap in the face to people who (sale or no sale) would go out and support an organization and then find out they could have saved a few $$$ by waiting.  Had this unit been like the bash bunny where a day after it came out there were scripts everywhere, I probably wouldn't have said anything.  But there really isn't as much going on for the packet squirrel.  I hope there is in time...but as of right now there really isn't. 

For a little guy like me who doesn't post much I was honored to see Seb and Darren on my post.  I thought to myself wow these guys are going to chime in and say just wait...this packet squirrel is going to be amazing...  But they didn't...  They just continued the joke.  So if this is all just a joke, at the expense of my hard earned cash, then it clearly explains this post and why the items that I purchased are up for sale.

Thanks to all.  I had fun over the years.  I learned a lot from hak5 and everyone on here.  But I don't have time for jokes and this was quite the wake up call.  So I'm out.  Feel free to delete my posts if you'd like.

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7 hours ago, Bob123 said:

Had this unit been like the bash bunny where a day after it came out there were scripts everywhere, I probably wouldn't have said anything.  But there really isn't as much going on for the packet squirrel.  I hope there is in time...but as of right now there really isn't. 

Completely agree. I, however, am creating a rather large payload right now so it's not entirely dead.
As the saying goes: "Nothing's over while I'm still standing!"

7 hours ago, Bob123 said:

I thought to myself wow these guys are going to chime in and say just wait...this packet squirrel is going to be amazing...  But they didn't...  They just continued the joke.  So if this is all just a joke, at the expense of my hard earned cash, then it clearly explains this post and why the items that I purchased are up for sale.

It is a pretty serious topic, so for the people in question to be making jokes on the same topic usually means they aren't taking it seriously enough and that could be for a number of reasons (lazy, being silly, knows-that-the-person-making-the-topic-is-being-silly, ignorant etc.).

( @Darren Kitchen @Sebkinne - mentioning you guys so you can read and consider this carefully, I apologise but I feel I have to do this as it's fairly serious)

I'm NOT having a go at Darren, Seb and the bois - (would never dog the bois) - I'm just saying that maybe they should take this topic a bit more seriously, especially since this isn't the first time someone's made a post like this in the past year. They're've been quite a few of them, and even random comments throughout the forums saying that the downhill trend of video frequency is a bit disappointing.

I love the Hak5 stuff, love "trawling the forums" helping others with the limited knowledge that I have, and I love learning more knowledge (of which has been a huge spike of late). To see something slip through the thin grate is a bit disappointing, but I'm sure Hak5 are more than capable of keeping a techie's dream alive - as they have done so for so many years.

Maybe putting a bit more effort into the community than the devices could help here.. More time spent on devices is less time spent on videos and the community. I know you guys have been really busy with upcoming devices and making the current ones better, but if they'res no community to give them to..What's the point? I'm not saying we're all threatening to pack our..(laptops?) and leave but what's the point in giving something pointless to someone who's waiting for something productive or beneficial? What if all the new devices and/or upgrades end up with as much hype as (or less than) the PS?

What you could do is add more people to your arsenal, dedicated to either answering questions on the forums or providing more content for the community. That way Darren can focus more on his videos and devices, Sebkinne doesn't have as much notifications in his notifications thing on the forums (I'm sure it's reading about 50 or so by now) and has less stress while working on the devices.

It also means more devices, more content and more replies to forum posts at the same time!

I don't see myself leaving anytime soon so I'll still be around to trawl the forums as well as many others.

 

(I'm sure you can imagine the time I spent writing this short essay - I just hope it's useful, constructive and encouraging and buries more than it raises)

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I for one, have had many discussions for use of the packet squirrel here at my job.  Along with that, it has also been discussed developing payloads for it's usage.  I , for one, do not depend solely on payloads posted.  I also tailor and create payloads for the needs I have for the tools.  And that is what they are exactly, tools.  it is up to you to use them as you needs.  Now that is just my 2 cents, take it as you will.

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Come on guys, what you have here is a working linux box smaller than a box of matches, that alone makes it great! 

I've only just started playing around with it and with some help from Openwrt forums i've got a wifi connection working from it, when you think about it the possibilities of what can be done with this are vast.

Darren, I like it but we just need to spread the enthusiasm!

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16 hours ago, PixL said:

Come on guys, what you have here is a working linux box smaller than a box of matches, that alone makes it great! 

I've only just started playing around with it and with some help from Openwrt forums i've got a wifi connection working from it, when you think about it the possibilities of what can be done with this are vast.

Darren, I like it but we just need to spread the enthusiasm!

Okay sure. But what about the payloads? Almost zero activity and no super interesting payloads. Just some packet capture and thats about it. Rasoberry pi zero is pretty small too

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@Bob123 This is common with early adopters and technology.

Remember what felt like a struggling Ducky project in 2011? 

A little known website spawned in 2012 to combat this https://web.archive.org/web/20121116015936/http://code.google.com:80/p/ducky-decode/

To my surprise (and maybe others) the ducky is still going strong to this day. It took one person, to inspire, and get others together to contribute, to re-inject life into the project.

If you feel so strongly, you should direct some of your passion into learning how to develop and support the device and its up-coming future & community.

Hak5 is forever evolving and improving, they provide us with cool tech and a community, and I look forward to what they bring in the future!

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Bob123,

I don't want you to feel blown off or belittled. Your concerns are legitimate and I personally take all product feedback to heart.

The Packet Squirrel is an exciting one where we actually provided 3 excellent payloads out of the box - a first for us. Over time I expect many more to be available. There have been some submissions to the github repo already. From experience I'd say submissions may have a slow burn, like the Rubber Ducky when it first came out. Time will tell - and we'll do our part to encourage development. 

On the show side of things, I think you'll be happy to know that in January we're launching a new Hak5 series called [PAYLOAD]. As the name implies it's all about our favorite extensions to these tools. The first two episodes are about the Packet Squirrel, and my hope is that this series spurs community development. 

In regards to the sale, the email you received was for Black Friday. This is an annual event that most retailers in the US participate in, which traditionally kicks off the holiday buying season. It's customary to have a "door-buster" promotion, which is typically a loss leader to generate sales. In this case that was the Packet Squirrel, with a $4-5 difference from the introduction sale we did upon release. I don't want you to feel cheated in any way - so if the sale price is a pain point for you please reach out to me directly at darren@hak5.org and I'll see what I can do to make that right.

DJ hit the nail on the head in regards to all of the work that we're doing over here at Hak5. It's getting to be quite overwhelming as we're growing, so in order to be able to focus on all of the things we're known for and to do them well, like videos, products and community -- we're needing to invest in growing the team. It's a big focus of mine in 2018 and I hope that you'll soon see the fruits of all the labor we've been putting into Hak5 behind the scenes. At some point early-ish in the year we'll have some big updates to share with the community :)

If there's anything else you'd like to discuss please feel free to reach out to me directly.

Cheers,
Darren

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4 hours ago, winter_soldier said:

@Bob123 This is common with early adopters and technology.

Remember what felt like a struggling Ducky project in 2011? 

A little known website spawned in 2012 to combat this https://web.archive.org/web/20121116015936/http://code.google.com:80/p/ducky-decode/

To my surprise (and maybe others) the ducky is still going strong to this day. It took one person, to inspire, and get others together to contribute, to re-inject life into the project.

If you feel so strongly, you should direct some of your passion into learning how to develop and support the device and its up-coming future & community.

Hak5 is forever evolving and improving, they provide us with cool tech and a community, and I look forward to what they bring in the future!

You bring up a good point. I hadn't seen this post since my response. The USB Rubber Ducky was a great learning experience for us -- and it was an influence to bring on a full time dev. Since then Seb has been continuously pushing out awesome firmware with feature after feature for our little tropical farm. It's also another reason as I said we put emphasis on including 3 awesome payloads to get the ball rolling right on the device.

I'm really excited to see what all is done with the Packet Squirrel that we could never imagine. Time after time we hear of the coolest uses of our tools from pentesters at DEF CON and the like. I'm always exclaiming "Please post that payload - it sounds awesome!"

As you might imagine often times these are kept close to the vest. I can understand why, but it's a true shame that some of the most innovative stuff is never made public =/

Also quick edit: After chatting with Shannon it seems the first episode of [PAYLOAD] will air on the 20th followed by our annual blooper holiday special on the 27th, then resume on January 3rd. 

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On 12/13/2017 at 5:49 PM, Darren Kitchen said:

Also quick edit: After chatting with Shannon it seems the first episode of [PAYLOAD] will air on the 20th followed by our annual blooper holiday special on the 27th, then resume on January 3rd. 

Where is this payloads video?

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