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a year in jail


thisiam
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Why is this a crime?

Would you tap someone elses water pipe if it was out in the open for anyone to steal? Would you steal someones petrol if they left the cap open?

The two examples that you give have a tangible object that would be denied to the owner of said object if it were taken. In the case of wi-fi, the owner isn't being denied the use of the service.

I agree that someone should not be able to just roll into your neighborhood and start surfing but a year in prison is pretty harsh. I mean, with all the things going on in the world today I would dare say we have better things to worry about. Even the fine and probation seem silly to me, then again, I think that an adult should be able to make the choice as to whether or not they want to wear a seatbelt too.

I personally think that there should be some level of personal responsibility on the owners part to make sure that things like this can't happen. I know the argument can be made that they don't know how but there are more than enough "services" that can do it for you. When I was in college I did it all the time.

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Why is this a crime?

Would you tap someone elses water pipe if it was out in the open for anyone to steal? Would you steal someones petrol if they left the cap open?

The two examples that you give have a tangible object that would be denied to the owner of said object if it were taken. In the case of wi-fi, the owner isn't being denied the use of the service.

I agree that someone should not be able to just roll into your neighborhood and start surfing but a year in prison is pretty harsh. I mean, with all the things going on in the world today I would dare say we have better things to worry about. Even the fine and probation seem silly to me, then again, I think that an adult should be able to make the choice as to whether or not they want to wear a seatbelt too.

I personally think that there should be some level of personal responsibility on the owners part to make sure that things like this can't happen. I know the argument can be made that they don't know how but there are more than enough "services" that can do it for you. When I was in college I did it all the time.

Exactly... I've used unsercured wireless for things like checking my email or train times etc. I don't see this as a crime, if its been left open. The idea of comparing to it stealing water or petrol is rubbish, its not like that at all. If its cracked, thats different, but if its open and the user isn't causing harm (ie hacking or spamming), this isn't a crime. Its kinda like someone watching TV threw your window, if you don't want them to do it, you close the curtains. Just another item for the pile marked "stupid americans" i'm afraid.

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The way this SHOULD work is that the owner of the service (the WiFi basestation) complains to the police that people are robbing him of said service, and they move in to investigate.

In this particular instance it would appear that the cops in question ASSUMED that since the person using the service didn't have the explicit permission of the owner of the service, he wasn't entitled to use it.

Smells fishy to me...

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wonder what the chances of being caught? don't drive the opposite way down a one way street would be one way to avoid it i would assume.

And a person who doesn't bother to secure there network probably wont know you are on there anyways.

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If your neighbor was spraying water all over your house can they then arrest and fine you for using it?

Well, the cable company can sue your neighbor for tapping your TV cable. And chances are you won't really notice a difference in service if your neighbor did the work properly.

That one's always had me stumped. Inside your home you can split the cable to your hearts content so you end up with cable TV in all rooms of the house. However, if you drill a hole in the wall and let your neighbor use your cable (assuming the cable company would find out about it) you're breaking the law. Well, thinking about it, you're probably breaking your contract that confines the service to your personal property.

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It's theft of service, plain and simple. How would you feel if someone were sitting outside using *your* wireless connection? And "but I encrypt mine" is not a relevant argument, sorry.

So what if they're just checking their mail?

So what if they're just downloading music?

So what if they're just recording your traffic?

So what if they're just launching a botnet?

So what if they're just posting child porn to usenet?

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It's theft of service, plain and simple. How would you feel if someone were sitting outside using *your* wireless connection? And "but I encrypt mine" is not a relevant argument, sorry.

So what if they're just checking their mail?

So what if they're just downloading music?

So what if they're just recording your traffic?

So what if they're just launching a botnet?

So what if they're just posting child porn to usenet?

it's very relevant, if the network is open and broadcasting to the world anyone can use it if it's encrypted unless you have the password (without stealing it) you cant use it... to use my old analogy

If someone is spraying water up into the air to water their lawn, but some gets on your lawn are you stealing his water?

If someone does the same but puts up a fence to stop the water from making your lawn wet, but you take down the fence to get the water is that stealing?

If Fox NBC ABC send there signal into the air and you tap into it are you stealing?

on a side note:

Some people don't know how to set up a hotspot but want to share their wireless.

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it's very relevant, if the network is open and broadcasting to the world anyone can use it if it's encrypted unless you have the password (without stealing it) you cant use it... to use my old analogy

If someone is spraying water up into the air to water their lawn, but some gets on your lawn are you stealing his water?

If someone does the same but puts up a fence to stop the water from making your lawn wet, but you take down the fence to get the water is that stealing?

Your analogies miscontrue the argument. Internet service is not a consumable as you describe it; you have to send packets to get packets. By injecting *any* traffic into a network you don't own or have lawful access to, you are intruding on another party's infrastructure. It is illegal trespass, invasion of privacy, and degredation of service.

If Fox NBC ABC send there signal into the air and you tap into it are you stealing?

Broadcast television is a free, unidirectional service clearly advertised and intended to be utilized; this comparison has no relevance here whatsoever.

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It's theft of service, plain and simple. How would you feel if someone were sitting outside using *your* wireless connection? And "but I encrypt mine" is not a relevant argument, sorry.

Well, I personally am paranoid enough that when I had my house built I made sure there were sufficient empty tubes in the house that would allow me to pull through my own wired network to just about every corner without running into the female-unfriendly cable clutter.

The thing is, and I could be mistaken here, but I believe that if you're running Windows and have a supported wireless network card active in it and you just go walk around it will connect you to any network it can find, assuming it can get on it. So basically the default behaviour would have you breaking the law.

Now, suppose this is how it works, and both you and your neighbor are morons. You both have an open access point. You're inside your home, and as you turn on your laptop your base station releases the magic smoke. Your machine will look for a base station and find your neightbor's. It will connect and allow you internet access, just the way you'd expect it to.

Only problem is, you're now breaking the law and face up to a year in prison. Does that sound fair to you?

True, this doesn't equate well to the original premise of the guy sitting in a car someplace with the sole intention to use someone else's unsecured network. But I'm still quite interested in your answer.

Along that same train of thought, how about this one. Your neightbor has an access point, whereas you don't. Since the radio waves of his access point and laptop enter your home, are you allowed to activate the otherwise useless (as you've got a wired network) wireless network card on your laptop and record the packets that are being broadcast? If not, why?

If that's allowed, would you be allowed to try and decrypt them. If not, why?

If that's allowed, would that change if your neighbor happens to be the local police station? (For the record, where I live the police station is my southern next-door neighbor and city hall is my northern next-door neighbor. I didn't scan for open AP's yet, but wonder if I should)

I don't think these are particularly easy questions to answer as they demand you draw a line where the one user's actions are actually infringing on the other user's rights. And people tend to draw such a line at wildly different places.

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nahh

windows doesn't automatically connect unless you have connected to them before

you buy a d-link DI-624+ router and turn it on... someone else near you buys a d-link DI 514 router and turns it on... because it's already connected to the internet no one changes anything and the SSID for both is default... your router release the magic smoke one night so you computer connect to the other "default" SSID

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Well, I personally am paranoid enough that when I had my house built I made sure there were sufficient empty tubes in the house that would allow me to pull through my own wired network to just about every corner without running into the female-unfriendly cable clutter.

What? No TEMPEST-standard Faraday lining or emission-absorbing paint? And you call yourself paranoid... :P

I don't think these are particularly easy questions to answer as they demand you draw a line where the one user's actions are actually infringing on the other user's rights. And people tend to draw such a line at wildly different places.

You're absolutely right. Unfortunately, law is always several years behind technology. The gap doesn't appear to be closing at all, and with people like Ted Stevens drafting legislation it never will.

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