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Sokar

Upgrading the Antenna

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Lets start by saying, I know almost nothing about antennas.

What antenna do you use? What is the dBi on the stock antenna (I did not see it on the product page). I prefer omni, but I was told if you want distance, you need a directional antenna. I'm open to suggestions..

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About Antenna

A bit more

Watch these videos and that should give you a better understanding of dbi, dbm, etc

The Tetra has 5 or 6Dbi antenna with the Tetra running at 29Dbm. Im going to say the highest would be a 9Dbi antenna for the tetra.

this is for 2.4ghz, I havent ventured in the 5ghz range myself.

Edited by b0N3z
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Stock antennas are 2dbi omni, so this is great for indoors. As for passing through a house with this and achieving good signal strength? Maybe in china town.

An alfa would be the best first upgrade IMHO. That 3rd ap features is great, the increase in backhaul in client mode will make your APs stronger. Of course if you are tethering thats going to be best case scenario for a high throughput. I think it comes with a 5dbi or 6db which scan and is my default with the stock antenna. But those are out of stock in the hakshop.

So 6dbi omni is nice for the neighborhood landscape and you can get some ok range here.

Next I like a something in the 10dbi range. Currently I have two 9dbi magnetic mounts. Those have built in range extenders and this is a nice scan area here. It's also great for the mobile kit.

Yagis are super at being directed at a target. So attaching this to an alfa, can get you client mode from an AP on wlan2 for 4+miles on a nice day. However there is a fluctuation in the wavelength and that will be apparent in increased latency over distance.

Panel antennaes are up there in range too but ya know, in consistency too, they cover a broader 1.5mile+ area with a good connection.

6dbi area is going to return results probably what you are imagining.

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Next I like a something in the 10dbi range. Currently I have two 9dbi magnetic mounts. Those have built in range extenders and this is a nice scan area here. It's also great for the mobile kit.

I would need 4 for the Tetra correct? Could you provide some links to where I can get them (like Amazon). 9-10dbi sounds perfect... go big or go home...

Edited by Sokar

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The WiFi Pineapple TETRA comes with 5dbi antennas, not 2.

If you wanted to boost both phy0 and phy1, four antennas are required. If you were to just want one of the phys, two are enough.

Keep in mind the WiFi Pineapple TETRA uses SMA connectors like the MKV, but the NANO uses RP-SMA.

Please also remember that depending on your country you'll have to tweak the TX power of the radios to stay within legal limits.

Best regards,

Sebkinne

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Is there a diagram for which antenna / adapter is used for which purpose by default? I didnt find any mention of it in the diagrams but would like to know for upgrades as well. Thanks!

Edit: after lots of searching I found a post, if you're also looking for the same here you go: https://forums.hak5.org/index.php?/topic/37586-general-tetra-discussion/page-3?hl=antenna#entry273562

Smarty -

With the front (LED side) of the WiFi Pineapple TETRA facing you, the two antennas on the left are wlan0 and the two on the right are wlan1. Another way to put look at it is that the two wlan0 antennas are closest to the RJ45 Ethernet port while the two wlan1 antennas are closest to the Reset button. Both radios are in a diversity configuration by default and ship with dual-band antennas.

Also it sounds like your power issue is related to the extra draw of the LTE modem. The upgraded PSU will fix that. You'll be receiving an email shortly if you haven't already.

Cheers,

Darren

Edited by purrball

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I got one of these (TP-LINK TL-ANT2414A 2.4GHz 14dBi Outdoor Directional Antenna) some time back and tried it out my Tetra and the range actually seemed worse. I know its directional so that may have been the trouble, or maybe I attached it to the wrong connector? My purpose was to increase PineAP created AP range... would I need to use 2 for it to work?

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You need 2. One for 5GHz and one for the 4.2 GHZ band. Someone said use the RIGHT side (with lights facing you) for lan1, I found that to be not correct. I got better signal with both antenna on the LEFT side.

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OK... I just upgraded mine with four 9db antennas, and I am getting significantly worse results than with my stock antennas... txpower is at 30.... is there something I need to do, or should I only upgrade two of them? Perhaps I bought some dud ones :(

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Guess you got bad antenna's.. most antennas on for example chinese websites are crap! The stock antennas that come with the tetra are good and i get very decent results with them. Maybe try some directonial antennas if range is what you are after.

I own a couple of very large directionals wich perform great. A good antenna isnt cheap so if the investment isnt worth it to you dont buy cheap ones but stick with the stock ones!!

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Thanks Smarty! You are right... they were terrible even on the Alfa's... and yes, they were from a chinese eBay shop :)

Next time I will not be so tight :)

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A note on upgraded antennas:

Yesterday morning I was driving with the nano and an Alfa AWUS036H as my wlan2. It also had an alfa 800mw Pen booster attached with the adapter's 5dbi antenna.  The antenna was located outside at the rear of the Jeep and The nano was inside against the rear window.  5 minutes or so after starting it up I started having waves of vibrating nausia sweep across my face and torso.  I was on the highway and wasn't able to pull over safely for a good 10 minutes.  My sinuses were swelling and draining, my eyes were sore and I could feel some organs in my torso which is never good.  When I got home I had to turn off all the wifi in the house because I could feel the waves.  I feel better but but my teeth still hurt and my left kidney is slightly pissed.  Just a word of caution to those that would rather learn from other's mistakes instead of their own.  

Fucking wifi, lol.

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Have you ever heard of tactile hallucinations? 

Well Anyway, I got an alfa hooked to a 2.5watt, hooked to an 800mw and I can't even feel it killing my sperm. 

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I would check the Jeep's  exhaust and fuel injection System on leakage first before blaming the wifi signals. 

If you still experience those symptoms visit a doctor or watch "better call Saul". Arthur Mcgill might have some tips!

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Does anybody have tips for optimal positioning when it comes to antennas? For instance, which side do we aim in what direction for PineAP's functions, or are they all designed to operate vertically at 90 degrees for best signal?

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That depends who you are aiming for... the standard  are omni directional antennas. So if you are looking to get clients all around you, just stick em up in the air... aiming for the coffeeshop across the street? Get directional and point it there!

 

Most PineApp traffic i believe runs on wlan0, the left side.. see above

Edited by Smarty
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A basic omnidirectional antenna has the radiation pattern of a donut.

E_and_H_Plane_PD.png

At the tip and bottom of the antenna you lose reception/power, so never point the top or bottom of the antenna at the target. The best orientation for the antennas is the orientation that positions your target's radiated signal to hit the broad side of the antenna directly. The more the target signal hits at an angle, the weaker the reception. Likewise when transmitting information, the target should be directly 90 degrees off the side of the antenna for maximum transfer. 

So if you are trying to attack a target across the coffee shop and you've got the Tetra on the table, positioning the antennas at 90 degrees vertically is fine. If the target is a floor below or above, push them down to be parallel with the Tetra. 

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Thank you both, this is really cool. I'm now even more interested in learning about rudimentary antenna technology. I had no idea that it would beacon out in a plane from the center, though understanding how a directional antenna works is easier to grasp. Either way, great stuff!

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On 6/6/2016 at 9:02 PM, Skinny said:

A basic omnidirectional antenna has the radiation pattern of a donut.

E_and_H_Plane_PD.png

At the tip and bottom of the antenna you lose reception/power, so never point the top or bottom of the antenna at the target. The best orientation for the antennas is the orientation that positions your target's radiated signal to hit the broad side of the antenna directly. The more the target signal hits at an angle, the weaker the reception. Likewise when transmitting information, the target should be directly 90 degrees off the side of the antenna for maximum transfer. 

So if you are trying to attack a target across the coffee shop and you've got the Tetra on the table, positioning the antennas at 90 degrees vertically is fine. If the target is a floor below or above, push them down to be parallel with the Tetra. 

If a regular omnidirectional antennas range is ^^^ this. How do the snubby antenna direct signal?

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For a stubby it depends on how it's built but for 2.4GHz stubby antennas, it's most likely just a shorter wire under the plastic. A normal, omni-directional WiFi antenna would be about 60mm long. That means it's cut for 1/2 wavelength reception. A stubby is around 30mm. It's cut for 1/4 wavelength. All things being equal, you're better off with the 60mm length.

As far as transmit/reception pattern, it would be the same as shown above.

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On 2016-6-1 at 6:00 AM, Spoonish said:

A note on upgraded antennas:

Yesterday morning I was driving with the nano and an Alfa AWUS036H as my wlan2. It also had an alfa 800mw Pen booster attached with the adapter's 5dbi antenna.  The antenna was located outside at the rear of the Jeep and The nano was inside against the rear window.  5 minutes or so after starting it up I started having waves of vibrating nausia sweep across my face and torso.  I was on the highway and wasn't able to pull over safely for a good 10 minutes.  My sinuses were swelling and draining, my eyes were sore and I could feel some organs in my torso which is never good.  When I got home I had to turn off all the wifi in the house because I could feel the waves.  I feel better but but my teeth still hurt and my left kidney is slightly pissed.  Just a word of caution to those that would rather learn from other's mistakes instead of their own.  

Fucking wifi, lol.

So did the war driving gear cause this, if so fuck dude are you going to be ok. No war driving video or site I have ever whatched mentioned that these these devices could mess with you like this. I'm glad I came across this post, so sorry to here what happened to you but as you said learn from others. So wow now I know 

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It's been a while and the residual effects subsided after 3 or 4 weeks. Most wifi/radio emitting devices (that I've noticed) have a warning/suggestion to keep at least 1 meter from humans. A quick search: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=suggested safe distance from radio emitting electronics

gave me this:

https://www.fcc.gov/engineering-technology/electromagnetic-compatibility-division/radio-frequency-safety/faq/rf-safety

and having the nano with a 1000watt Alfa nic with a 7db antenna boosted with an alfa 800mhz pen booster (which would equal illegal limits if I remember correctly). All in an empty hardtop jeep wrangler seems to be a stupid act; retroactivly thinking about it.. 

side note, your eyes are the most sensative tissue to radiation.  In 30 years all these VR people are going to have the eyeball cancer.

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I've never heard of anyone having issues like this in the almost 20 years I've been wardriving.  Even in the air force when one of my friends got slightly cooked by an F-15's radar he didn't have those kinds of symptoms.  He said it was like standing too close to a heat lamp.  The WOW switches on the landing gear failed, usually you can't turn on the radar on the ground.  Also your alfa is 1000 mwatt, not watt.  1000 watts is your microwave oven.  Even then, 1000 watts of rf will burn your skin and eyes long before it does anything to your internal organs.  Contrary to popular belief microwave ovens cook from the outside in.

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10 hours ago, barry99705 said:

I've never heard of anyone having issues like this in the almost 20 years I've been wardriving.  Even in the air force when one of my friends got slightly cooked by an F-15's radar he didn't have those kinds of symptoms.  He said it was like standing too close to a heat lamp.  The WOW switches on the landing gear failed, usually you can't turn on the radar on the ground.  Also your alfa is 1000 mwatt, not watt.  1000 watts is your microwave oven.  Even then, 1000 watts of rf will burn your skin and eyes long before it does anything to your internal organs.  Contrary to popular belief microwave ovens cook from the outside in.

 

Thank you for the correction.  Someone should try it it. Once I unplugged the nano, the effects stopped increasing.  I'm wondering if I was doing a constant recon or maybe trying deauth everything everwhere (maybe both). If by doing something that caused constant data transmitions vs passive listening, maybe that could have exacerbated the effects. I had a tp-link ac1900 wall mounted in the office and I remember getting queezy if I got too close to it.  

 

ON A SIDE NOTE: 

Could someone do the correct or ball park math to turn a pineapple into a giant cantenna? It's something I've leisurely pondered on and off since watching elliot make one in Mr. Robot but never enough to delve into.  I imagine it looking like 20 feet of those 30 gallon rubber trashcans; well engineered and supported; pulling in a small township's worth of SSIDs.  

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