I Need help, can someone think with me here please?

[Killnkenny]

Before I'm asking what kind of help I need, My name is Ken and 26 year old and I'm a dutchman (sorry for the English), I know some basics of computers and I'm asking this for the safety of (I see her as) my daughter, her mom is a really good friend of me.

She crossed the line today as in "parents way", her 11 years old daughter is "dating" in secret without knowing the basic "aspects of life", like "internet dangerous in general" and "what we see as reality". We are trying to understand when she is ready for these things and we think we know it when we think when she is ready for it.
So, I had a plan and the best place I think is everybody here.

Plan:
I'm going to organize a "kidnapping" scene, to be short: Asking a boy in my family or friends that can help me out here and trying to get a date with the daughter and trying to make it "real" as possible, asking for a "date" when she has to step in a train to go to him and when she will arrive and walks the next corner of a building we will wait there for her and her girlfriend (she was smart to go with a girlfriend of her) so we can show her it can be really dangerous, teaching some skills and don't lie to us, we are openminded but she still lies and stealing money too. Also teaching safety for sex etc.

Help:
Because this situation happend yesterday, I need a program for breaking into her android phone.
and
Program on the background of her phone and laptop(windows), so I can monitor her on my laptop when needed for her safety.
like GPS tracing etc.

examples
Phone:
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/pictures-story/596-best-parental-control-apps.html
Top 10 apps

Laptop:

http://www.spectorsoft.com/home-solutions.html?vwo=homegate

The reason asking this is is because I want softwares that I can thrust and to do so many research is a big job and maybe there is a better solution for this, asking you guys!

Any ideas or tips etc. to pull this off would be great/welcome!

Thank you for your time!

Greetings Ken

[mw3demo]

Hi Ken,

This all depends on where you live. What country are you from? A city would be even better because some apps work alot better depending on this due to GPS programming for certain areas.

Greetings,

mw3demo

Edited January 4, 2015 by mw3demo

[cooper]

Good grief man, NO!

Je bent knettergek als je denkt dat zoiets als dit voor 'opvoeden' door kan gaan.

Die situatie die gisteren gebeurd is, is dat je ontvoering die al heeft plaatsgevonden, of is dat de oplossing die jij/jullie bedacht hebben nu er iets anders heeft plaatsgevonden? Het is duidelijk dat je haar niet vertrouwt, maar ergens heb je nog gezag en invloed op haar. Zodra ze erachter komt dat je met haar telefoon gekloot hebt (en ja, daar gaat ze achter komen - gegarandeerd) ben je de vijand. Als je nu al bang bent dat ze wegloopt is dit precies het soort van acties wat maakt dat ze dat ook gaat doen. Bekijk dit voor het gemak eens vanuit haar perspectief. Waarom zou ze je ooit nog vertrouwen? Respecteren?

De enige manier om tot haar door te dringen is door met haar te praten, haar te behandelen als iemand met een mening die ook telt. Ja, ze heeft nog enorm veel te leren, maar dat gebeurt niet door te zeggen "niet doen". Dat gebeurt door te zeggen "dit is waarom het geen goed idee is". Prettige zinnetjes om hierbij te gebruiken zijn "jij bent slimmer dan dit", "jij kunt beter dan dit". Geef aan dat jij/jullie nog wel vertrouwen (willen) hebben in haar.

De uitdaging is om haar te laten beseffen dat sommige dingen beter nog even kunnen wachten. Als jij beren op haar weg ziet, vraag dan aan haar hoe ze daarmee om denkt te gaan. Niet boos worden, niet schreeuwen (ook al doet zij dat wel), niet ingaan op provocaties en vooral niet veroordelen. Je mag best zeggen dat iets je teleur stelt ("Jij bent beter dan dit") maar niet meer dan dat. Gewoon vragen. "Je doet nu X. Risico is Y. Wat doe je nu om dat te voorkomen? Wat ga je doen als het toch gebeurt?"

Als ze zich zo volwassen al vind zou ze antwoorden op dit soort zaken moeten hebben.

Praat met haar, probeer te begrijpen wat zij denkt en zorg ervoor dat zij weet dat als zij ergens mee zit of iets kwijt wil, dat ze dat kan neerleggen bij jullie.

Boven alles, zorg ervoor dat ze weet en begrijpt dat jullie van d'r houden. Volgens mij zit je hart op de juiste plek maar ik vraag me af of zij er ook zo over denkt.

Gooi gerust iets in de PM als je de discussie wat minder publiek wil hebben.

Edit: English version:

You're nuts if you think this passes for 'educating a child'.

The situation that occurred yesterday, was that the 'kidnapping' which already occurred, or is that the solution you thought up now that something else has happened? It's obvious you don't trust her, but you still have some degree of authority and influence over her. Once she discovers you messed with her phone (and yes, she will find out - I'll guarantee you that) you're the enemy. If you're fearful now that she might run away this is just the sort of thing that'll make her do that. Look at it from her perspective. Why would she ever trust you again? Respect you?

The only way to reach her is by talking to her, treat her like someone with an opinion that also matters. Yes, she's got a lot to learn, but she won't by you telling her "don't". She will by you telling her "here's why that's not a good idea". Thoughtful things to say here are "you're smarter than that", "you can do better than this". Show her that you still (want to) trust her.

The challenge is to make her understand that some things are better left for later. If you see dangers in her path, ask her how she imagines dealing with them. Don't get angry, don't shout (even though she might), don't let het provoke you and above all don't judge. You can say you're disappointed about things ("You're better than this") but don't go beyond that. Just ask. "You're now doing X. The risk of that is Y. What are you doing to prevent that? What will you do if it happens anyway?"

If she thinks she's so mature she should have answers to things like this.

Talk to her, try to understand what's going through her head and make sure she knows if something bugging her or she needs to get something off her chest, you're there for her.

Above all, make sure she knows and understands you love her. I think your heart's in the right place, but I wonder if she feels the same way.

Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss this less publicly.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Cooper

[mw3demo]

Cooper! Damnit. Was trying to do some social engineering. I was going to post this:

"This all doesn't sound right, and is very suspicious. Your post screams at me that you are a peadophile. I have never heard of such a horrendous situation as a step father and his friend kidnapping a girl from another mother "teaching some skills and don't lie to us".

I dated girls when I was 6 and onwards. You know what we did? Held hands, laughed and watched TV oh the shock horror. If I heard my wives new partner kidnapped my girl, I would find you and show you what kidnapping is all about, you would beg me to end it. What the hell is wrong in that sick twisted head of yours? Go get some help."

Edit: Either this guy is a peadophile, or is actually a 11 year old himself. Out of curiosity though, how come you replied to him in Dutch Cooper? Anyways $5 says he doesn't reply.

Edit 2: Just looked at his post again and saw that he mentioned he was Dutch.

Edited January 4, 2015 by mw3demo

[Sebkinne]

I'm not going to comment on this thread, except that if you post something in Dutch, please also put the translation in English below that.

-Seb

[cooper]

if you post something in Dutch, please also put the translation in English below that.

Noted, will do so in the future.

Added a transcript so people can verify it's all on the up-and-up. Put it in dutch since sometimes things get lost in translation and this sounds like something way too important for that.

[Killnkenny]

Hi Ken,

This all depends on where you live. What country are you from? A city would be even better because some apps work alot better depending on this due to GPS programming for certain areas.

Greetings,

mw3demo

The Netherlands, city doesn't matter here, it's small :P.

@Cooper:

Bedankt voor je mening, ik heb echt serieuze en meerdere malen toe gesprekken erover gehad. Juist ook met dit soort dingen en ze reageert alsof ze het allemaal maar weet en ondanks dat ik objectiever de vragen neerleg voor het, ook wat jij bedoelt met "planning" en wat ze nou doet in bepaalde situaties heeft ze geen antwoord erop behalve "ik weet niet" of "gewoon". Ik vraag dit ook niet voor niets en de reden waarom ik juist deze stap neem is juist om te laten zien dat alles ook gepland kan worden zonder dat ze het doorheeft, ik welke mate moeten we nog goed bedenken, we hebben talloze serieuze gesprekken gehad waarop haar (uiteindelijke) antwoorden ook nog eens deels gelogen waren, ze neemt het tot op zekere hoogte niet serieus.

Als jullie denken dat alleen praten echt kan helpen geef ik jullie echt ongelijk, bij sommige kinderen helpt dat inderdaad en is het genoeg, maar helaas is het in dit geval niet zo en moet zij het ervaren (op een controlerende manier, praktijk gericht) om het punt te begrijpen. Geloof me als ik zeg dat ik niets liever had gewild dat het met praten opgelost kan worden.

Je hoeft niet bang te zijn dat we heer gemeen behandelen of straffen, valt echt mee. Maar 1 ding heb ik wel meegekregen en dat als dat elk kind uniek is en er geen handleiding ervoor bestaat.

Kijk, dat ze dingen stiekem doet enzovoorts dat hoort erbij en prima, maar er zijn grenzen en wat we allemaal al meerdere malen hebben besproken neemt ze niet mee. Hiermee doel ik op kennis op gebied van menselijke aspecten in de zin van goed en kwaad.

Ik ben ervan bewust dat ik hiermee het "vertrouwen" tussen mij en haar serieus op de proef wordt gesteld, maar ben overtuigd dat dit plan een goed leermoment is, of ze het leuk vindt of niet, bij haar werkt praktijk ervaring gewoon erg goed.

Maarja, dat is een verschil tussen mensen en gelukkig laten mensen zien waarom ik overtuigd van mezelf ben, mensen hebben hier al een vooroordeel en dat bevestigen zij ook nog, je kan het normaal vragen maar niet gelijk een ander van iets uitmaken, uiteindelijk ben ik diegene dat rot geschrokken is en er zit nog wat geschiedenis eracht en in een paar woorden: Bio-vader is van buitenlandse afkomst en zit in de criminele scene dus het is juist van belang dat ze dit stuk heel goed begrijpt en als ik de "boosdoener" moet zijn om door te kunnen komen dan doe ik dat, zodat ik in ieder geval haar de ervaring heb kunnen geven dat het echt slecht had kunnen aflopen om zomaar met jongens af te spreken zonder dat ze hun goed kent, naast dat ze 11 jaar is.

Cooper! Damnit. Was trying to do some social engineering. I was going to post this:

"This all doesn't sound right, and is very suspicious. Your post screams at me that you are a peadophile. I have never heard of such a horrendous situation as a step father and his friend kidnapping a girl from another mother "teaching some skills and don't lie to us".

I dated girls when I was 6 and onwards. You know what we did? Held hands, laughed and watched TV oh the shock horror. If I heard my wives new partner kidnapped my girl, I would find you and show you what kidnapping is all about, you would beg me to end it. What the hell is wrong in that sick twisted head of yours? Go get some help."

Edit: Either this guy is a peadophile, or is actually a 11 year old himself. Out of curiosity though, how come you replied to him in Dutch Cooper? Anyways $5 says he doesn't reply.

Edit 2: Just looked at his post again and saw that he mentioned he was Dutch.

It's not "kidnapping" in a way of pulling a bag on her head or something, more in a way of showing here that in reality people cannot be trusted without some basic understanding of life itself. What I mean is getting a fake date with and when she goes there without telling us anything and doesn't picking up her phone in purpose for asking where she was and she knows that we are more interested if she is safe instead the punishment she will get.

Besides that, she is a girl and understanding the way you are writing tells me you don't have children neither a girl.

---------

Anyway, you don't have to take me seriously and I'm not asking for it. But say something that makes sense please instead calling me a peadophile like a 10 year old.

[siddharth]

u dont trust her and u want to monitor her 24hr ...u just want to get android monitoring software...

[Killnkenny]

u dont trust her and u want to monitor her 24hr ...u just want to get android monitoring software...

No not 24hr, I'm not going to check on her because of just some suspicious behavior, only for emergency's if she is does it again, so we can trace her when needed, looking into her text messages were she is going to and who. Because she dates with unfamiliar boys a-crossed the country, like yesterday we only knew what city she went to (after discovering on her girlfriends phone, she left it home), we had a name and checked on google so we managed to know were that guy plays soccer, so we called the soccer club for a phone number of the parents of that boy and this proces cost us 3,5hours without succes. We had a phone number of that boy aswel and he pick-up the phone and trying to ask if the girls are there and he just turn off the phone and saying nothing(when the girls were with him).

[digip]

Good grief man, NO!

and

You're nuts if you think this passes for 'educating a child'.

^ Pretty much says it all. Respect your children, be a parent, not a spy and someone they will not be able to trust or look up to. Being as you are NOT her parent, let the mother raise the kid, decide what/how to handle it, offer support, but this seems WAY extreme in a means to an end on trying to help. What kid HASN'T done things they aren't supposed to do growing up? Educating them on the dangers of the internet and other such things such as date rape, etc, good deal, all for that. Spying on them and abusing their trust for people they should look up to as role models, who want to teach them by doing something like breaking into their devices and monitor them, NO. All you will do is make them learn to trust no one, including you. Find a better solution. As a parent myself, I'm surly going to be worried when my girls reach the age of dating, talking to people online, etc, but that's a parents place to be there for the kids and teach them about these dangers. Rebellion is to be expected. They're kids. We were no different. Using "scare tactics" and even breaking into their phone, devices, etc, sounds more damaging to the child than helpful in this instance. If you want to learn how to do those things, plenty of online resources for it, but if you're serious about trying to "help" a child/young adult, then this is not the best course of action, and I gather most here would probably feel the same way, but thats just my 2 cents. Edited January 4, 2015 by digip

[Killnkenny]

and

^ Pretty much says it all. Respect your children, be a parent, not a spy and someone they will not be able to trust or look up to. Being as you are NOT her parent, let the mother raise the kid, decide what/how to handle it, offer support, but this seems WAY extreme in a means to an end on trying to help. What kid HASN'T done things they aren't supposed to do growing up? Educating them on the dangers of the internet and other such things such as date rape, etc, good deal, all for that. Spying on them and abusing their trust for people they should look up to as role models, who want to teach them by doing something like breaking into their devices and monitor them, NO. All you will do is make them learn to trust no one, including you. Find a better solution. As a parent myself, I'm surly going to be worried when my girls reach the age of dating, talking to people online, etc, but that's a parents place to be there for the kids and teach them about these dangers. Rebellion is to be expected. They're kids. We were no different. Using "scare tactics" and even breaking into their phone, devices, etc, sounds more damaging to the child than helpful in this instance. If you want to learn how to do those things, plenty of online resources for it, but if you're serious about trying to "help" a child/young adult, then this is not the best course of action, and I gather most here would probably feel the same way, but thats just my 2 cents.

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

Taking privacy serious and like I have said is that we won't spy, we use it when its needed in case of emergency.

[digip]

They make phones, like the Firebug, that lets you setup "whitelists" of numbers that can be recieved and called to/from the phone, along with tracking. Its mainly for smaller children, who go on a school trips and get lost, they can only call say, mom, dad, emergency numbers and people you program into the phone. Also, if they get lost, you can find where the child is and has been.

In the situation where your friends child is savvy enough to know how to get on trains, use the internet, and is doing things in secret, it seems to me the child has some reason to feel the need to sneak around to do them and maybe some deeper issues at heart. Maybe addressing those issues in more detail might bring to light why the child is acting out, but I would say, its probably the normal trend for a child growing up and coming into their own.

You could do any number of things to monitor the child, such as keyloggers, but putting restrictions on sites they can visit, parental controls, DNS blacklisting, etc, but they usually find ways around them and circumvent them when put in place. Not to mention, can cause the child to become more withdrawn and feel attacked on a number of levels that may backfire in the end. Not that it applies specifically in this instance, but I can't help but think of what a kid who may have some internal issues going on, may do in response to finding out they are being monitored. Its definitely a find line all parents will have to deal with at some point.

This is probably an extreme example that hopefully doesn't apply(and probably not the best illustrated of child rebellion), but still a scary result of what kids do when they feel they don't have support from their parents:

http://web.archive.org/web/20141231152514/http://lazerprincess.tumblr.com/post/106447705738/suicide-note

I think you and the mother should spend more time talking to the child/young adult, vs looking for ways to do something that could in turn backfire in the end and cause more harm or rift between the mother and her child.

[cooper]

Ik begrijp je positie en inderdaad, er bestaat geen standaard handleiding voor elk kind. Bio-vader situatie is lastig. Is er een omgangsregeling of is hij compleet buiten beeld? Hebben jullie aan hem gevraagd hoe hij over de huidige situatie denkt?

Mijn 2 puntjes input voor het gemaakte plan:
1. NIET DOEN! Het kind zal die 'ontvoering' op z'n best interpreteren als iets wat niet liep zoals het hoort omdat jullie besloten hebben dat dat het gevolg zal zijn. Je verliest respect en de te leren les wordt, net als de andere wijze lessen, bij het grof vuil gelegd.
2. Bel met het Meldpunt Loverboys/jeugdprostitutie 0900 50070 70. Hier zou je 24 uur per dag, 7 dagen per week en volledig anoniem een luisterend oor moeten vinden en is bedoeld voor potentiele slachtoffers, ouders en omstanders. Op z'n minst zouden ze je verder moeten kunnen helpen. Wat je ook besluit te gaan doen, praat eerst met deze mensen. Waarschijnlijk hebben zij minder drastische suggesties.

English:

I understand your situation and, indeed, there's no fixed manual on how to raise a kid. The situation with the child's biological father is difficult. Is there some sort of visitation arrangement or is he completely out of the picture? Did you ask him his opinion on the current situation?

My 2 items of input regarding the plan you have:
1. DON'T DO IT! The child will, at best, interpret the 'kidnap' as something that didn't go to plan because you decided that that was supposed to be the outcome. You lose respect and the lesson to be learned will, like your other bits of wisdom, be completely ignored.
2. Call the dutch Loverboys/child prostitution helpline (dutch phone number). There should be someone to answer your call 24/7 and you can remain anonymous. The line's intended for potential victims, parents as well as bystanders. At the very least they should be able to direct on to whomever can provide you the help you need. Whatever you decide to do, talk to these people first. They're likely to have less drastic suggestions.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Cooper

[DataHead]

I'm a parent, and highly disagree with this whole shinannigan. You want trust? You want to ensure safety? Then step up and be not only a parent, but a best friend. End of story

[Killnkenny]

Thnx for the tips, I wont take these actions.

Going an a different path, I talked almost everyday with her and indeed this step is not the way to do.

Thanks for the help.

[i8igmac]

There are plenty of movies based on children and internet abductions. I would give that a try

[Jmanuel]

Don't Do IT. That's all I have to say

[newbi3]

That sounds like a really really good way to traumatize your kid for the rest of their life.

"This all doesn't sound right, and is very suspicious. Your post screams at me that you are a peadophile. I have never heard of such a horrendous situation as a step father and his friend kidnapping a girl from another mother "teaching some skills and don't lie to us".

I dated girls when I was 6 and onwards. You know what we did? Held hands, laughed and watched TV oh the shock horror. If I heard my wives new partner kidnapped my girl, I would find you and show you what kidnapping is all about, you would beg me to end it. What the hell is wrong in that sick twisted head of yours? Go get some help."

[Mr-Protocol]

I should have read this thread more when it was initially created to address this sooner. That said, there are better ways. Please review this for Internet Safety for kids of all ages:

http://www.netsmartz.org/InternetSafety

[i8igmac]

if I was a witness to this kind of activity, fake or real... I would most definitly become appart of the situation and beat some one close to death...

I have kids and seen to many movies...

[digip]

if I was a witness to this kind of activity, fake or real... I would most definitly become appart of the situation and beat some one close to death...

I have kids and seen to many movies...

This is also another reason NOT to attempt it. Anyone intervening, may potentially attack you, shoot you, kill you, have you arrested, etc, based on not knowing it was a "scare tactic". I think people seeing a kid abducted, most turn to a mob justice mentality, and you could end up getting beat down by other parents worried for a child, let alone she may scream for help thinking you mean to do harm, and in turn, make things worse for yourself.

[barry99705]

This thread is so full of fail it really needs to go away.