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Pinpointing Lag And Which Host Causing It Xbox Live


Pwnd2Pwnr
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So, here it goes. Is there a program that tells the host that another player is drastically slowing down the game? I know wireshark picks up packets, but to pinpoint the bad connection/lag switch and to send a request to stop to the transmission the player that has a latency of 3 seconds (exaggeration) because he is using a magic jack to play XBL?

I know this borderlines the ToS, but this is merely a question. If it should be in violation, THIS WAS A DUMB IDEA/QUESTION AND NO, YOU CAN NOT! (I blame those bastards who make programs that screw shit up, I am a legit player, but lagging is the NUMBER 1 CON of online gaming.)

So, if there is hope, what the hell is it, because I don't have time to craft packets in the middle of a snipers map, let alone put my controller down.

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That makes me curious to know if you even connect directly to the other users' xboxes or if everyone connects to xbox servers that handle the connection. A quick check online seems to point to they MAY be showing the other users' IP addresses. However I sold my Xbox since I didn't play enough so I can't test it for myself. Now this is just a rough guess but you COULD setup a script to watch the network traffic going to your xbox, ping those ip addy's and drop connection to those that don't ping back quick enough. If you ran this as a script on say router running w/ iptables you could have it firewall block chosen connections. Problem is some of these might not ping so you would have to either choose to drop all connections that don't ping (probably a lot more than you want to) or ignore those connections.

This does sound like an interesting concept, especially when you think of how malicious users could be using this in the wild currently.( As a fledgling security researcher I can see how this would be bad) A user could potentially start dropping other players connections of the opposing team or players doing better than they were. It also leaves users open to attack due to a disgruntled looser. The person could try to exploit their network or use other information they find linking to their IP to cause them issues in their normal day to day.

If you move forward on this subject please let me know seems pretty interesting.

ALSO IF YOU DO TEST THIS I would only do it on a server with consenting friends that don't mind you disconnecting them so that at least the users effected are ok with it. I wouldn't worry about Microsoft in that case. <---- Not legal advice!!!

Edited by combatwombat27
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I'm not sure how xbox live works but in most PC games, all players show up on the screen with a PING time. When people with high pings join, the games generally start to lag, and we just ask an admin to kick them or tell the user to leave and come back when they fix their connection, of if they get belligerent tell them to find another server, and we ban their use name.I would assume, xbox live games have severs people own where you can speak to server admins? Or is it all central hosted stuff with no admins in control? I've never played any console games online, only pc games, so not sure how the interface or server setup works from that end.

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OK... when Cain ran under the Win enivronment, it shows a few 65.x.x.x (which are closed, filtered. etc)... BUT, is rampant with local IPs :)... but it is still limited for what I am looking for.

Are they ran off of dedicated servers... Gears of War 3 does, but Halo, and a multitude of Arcade Live games are host dependent.

Mapped 65.x.x.x (4 of them with semi similar numbers) and leads me to Akamai servers.

The rest are... duh duh duh... LOCAL IPs.

Some of them are as little as 2-4 hops (and a bit more, ;)

Most of them will not resolve the hops after 30 tries apiece.

Not sure if this helps our conclusion whether or not there are host players, but I also get IPs from emails and party chats (love the bks who claim I am a power weapon whore)

This brings me to the conclusion that, though there may be servers, it takes the "best" connection and dubs that player host. There is a partial clip of the results (the one on top IS, in fact, my friend from Britain). So, minus the 65.x.x.x, I KNOW that there are viable IPs. But, on the flip side, Cain and Able is the only :out of the box: that automatically detects the IPs.

Does this clue in that is uses hosts that have the best/closest connection to the Akamai servers?

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ALSO IF YOU DO TEST THIS I would only do it on a server with consenting friends that don't mind you disconnecting them so that at least the users effected are ok with it. I wouldn't worry about Microsoft in that case. <---- Not legal advice!!!

Read the ToS, but when doesn't MS say don't do this... that is why I love open source... and I got friends willing to test this theory... Probably start a custom game and analyze the traffic some more. I will test some SYN/ACKs against the akamai servers from another PC... not mine ;)

They do, in fact, mirror traffic through the servers (probably some sort of scanner), they hit around 3.5 Mb download speed. So, that clues us in on some key variables, correct?

Edited by Pwnd2Pwnr
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After more investigation, I think I see the pattern.

(our key)

(to see!)

MICROSOFT LIVE SERVER----AKAMAI----HOST. This is a very rough look. But, I think since my first ping always pings the akamai server; then the players within any given match.

|

|

(GAME STUDIO) SERVERS

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Aside from the norm (you know what I mean, I hope), if I were to actually get the MD5, how would that help me with the idea of kicking lag connections? I can't seem to pull all of this together on my own... any advice?

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Are these YOUR game servers you run? I mean, how does XBOX live work? Do you call up friends and say, want to play XYZ game and then you get some unknown people who join that have major lag? On the PC side, you usually rent servers, or use game manufacturer provided sever space. On rented servers, you have admins who cna kick players, etc. On game owned servers they have them too, but they police less and more or less just provide game servers for public use, and just put them up for gamers to have more locations closer to them.

I've no clue from the XBOX live side how all that works for you guys, if you have private servers, or what, but if they offer a service for that, you and your friends should look into renting your own game server for specific games you play, and then password protect them(if thats even possible) which is what a lot of game clans do on the PC side when setting up platoons or game clans. if XBOX has no features to run your own servers, then lag is probably Dependant on 1 - how many hops you are from the connecting game server you use, and 2 - how fast your home connection is and 3 - if anyone on your home lan, is using major local bandwidth, which has nothing to do with the XBOX live servers and more QOS at your home network.

Edited by digip
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EA offers certain games to RENT servers, not to purchase a specific one. As far as others, like Gears of War, Epic Studios, integrates into one a host server (matchmaking could take up to a half hour in GoW 2). I have a solid understanding of online gameplay via pc... but the console adds another element. So, my hypothesis remains as I posted above

MS STUDIOS--AKAMAI SERVER--CONSOLE

|

assuming

Game Studio Server

^^

They may provide authentication keys for

the purchased material. The

software the studio provided has

auth keys, too.

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Are these YOUR game servers you run? I mean, how does XBOX live work? Do you call up friends and say, want to play XYZ game and then you get some unknown people who join that have major lag? On the PC side, you usually rent servers, or use game manufacturer provided sever space. On rented servers, you have admins who cna kick players, etc. On game owned servers they have them too, but they police less and more or less just provide game servers for public use, and just put them up for gamers to have more locations closer to them.

I've no clue from the XBOX live side how all that works for you guys, if you have private servers, or what, but if they offer a service for that, you and your friends should look into renting your own game server for specific games you play, and then password protect them(if thats even possible) which is what a lot of game clans do on the PC side when setting up platoons or game clans. if XBOX has no features to run your own servers, then lag is probably Dependant on 1 - how many hops you are from the connecting game server you use, and 2 - how fast your home connection is and 3 - if anyone on your home lan, is using major local bandwidth, which has nothing to do with the XBOX live servers and more QOS at your home network.

My connection is good/average. I have a daughter whom watches shows shows via apps, but I have seen that traffic, and though it does cause a bit of latency, I have no issues, whatsoever. But, I get kids from around, say, Illinois, whom have worse lag than my friend in Angelholm, Sweden (I think it is 7 hops, I will double check). The kid in Illinois shows a 7-1 packet ratio to me (I send 1 SYN/ACK), he uses 7 SYN/ACKs (probably a SYN/ACK attempt to drop me, but I think he has waterfalls behind his ears). So, that is one scenario.

I have evaluated other laggy games, and the packet ratios are somewhat stable... and that is what gets me to assume that the A) Akamai sends out a request and hosts the nearest possible hop and designates them as the HOST of the game 2) Akamai does not filter good/bad connections 3) kind of clueless on what would be another suitable scenario for anything else...

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Are these YOUR game servers you run? I mean, how does XBOX live work? Do you call up friends and say, want to play XYZ game and then you get some unknown people who join that have major lag? On the PC side, you usually rent servers, or use game manufacturer provided sever space. On rented servers, you have admins who cna kick players, etc. On game owned servers they have them too, but they police less and more or less just provide game servers for public use, and just put them up for gamers to have more locations closer to them.

I've no clue from the XBOX live side how all that works for you guys, if you have private servers, or what, but if they offer a service for that, you and your friends should look into renting your own game server for specific games you play, and then password protect them(if thats even possible) which is what a lot of game clans do on the PC side when setting up platoons or game clans. if XBOX has no features to run your own servers, then lag is probably Dependant on 1 - how many hops you are from the connecting game server you use, and 2 - how fast your home connection is and 3 - if anyone on your home lan, is using major local bandwidth, which has nothing to do with the XBOX live servers and more QOS at your home network.

You pretty much meet RANDOMS... you pab to start a game... you matchmake... then you find people... yeah... completely random

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