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Taking On Anonymous


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Please note: It is not my intention to SPAM. If you feel that this message IS SPAM, please delete it from your server. I promise I will not write another one. For security reasons, my IP has been concealed. My name, withheld. I have started a project, and for lack of a better description, I would like to post a message, I sent to a user on Youtube.

(Video removed to protect users identity, but the basic gist of the video is that certain factions of Anonymous are taking up the power to decide the fates of people, before any justice can happen, just as the corporations which these factions are trying to stop.)

Hi, for security reasons, my identity will remain, of all things ANONYMOUS. (I don't want a bunch of hackers thinking I'm starting a war with them and for them to come attack me. I have hidden my IP and am using a ONE TIME ONLY account. I am writing you to ask for your assistance in a project I am putting together called Anonymous ICE (Internet Communications Exchange). I stumbled across your video, and thought you might be interested. The goal of this project, isn't to hack them back, b/c honestly, this would only result in a bunch of kids fighting (what they believe to be) the battle of their lives and reputations as a moral person, going on and on (perpetually never ending).

Instead, I would like point out the fallacies in the logic of their public announcements. I understand, that anonymous works in factions, and that one particular faction can have no contact at all with another particular faction. For this reason, the project, is not to start war with anonymous as a whole, but only to discredit the factions of anonymous which seem to think that they are any better than the corporations that they are trying to shut down, simply because those corporations have a lot of money. So basically, the goal is to show the factions of anonymous who are just trying to be bad ***es that that's all they're doing. Are you in? If so, here is a google group for you. It's a mailing list for you to join.

http://groups.google.com/group/anonymous-ice

I want to get collaborators from all over the web in on this project. I however, do wish to remain anonymous throughout the entire thing. I would also like to invite you to help me draft a mission statement, which I am planning to upload to youtube, in this format.

All help is appreciated. If you do not wish to join, please relay this message to your white hat hacker friends. Again, this is not about hacking, or war with Anonymous. This is only about pointing out fallacies in the logic that certain factions of Anonymous have, and then showing them their fallacies. I'm hoping to get some of these people to start using their brains and not just start sticking it to every man that they see who is bigger than them.

Thanks for reading, if you would like to join in, the group is open. If you would like to help with the Mission statement as well, please respond to this. Thank you, and have a great youtube day. :-)

Again, I'm not trying to SPAM. This is a one time thing. If you do not want this message on your board, please remove and disregard. I have decided to post this message on several boards that I know of around the Internet. Thanks for your time in reading this, I understand it is very hard monitoring and moderating forums all day, so, Please have a nice :-)

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It doesn't look like spam to me, as a matter of fact I've also posted a thread on Anonymous on a different matter, so it should be OK.

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Anonymous and Lulzsec pretty much are hypocrites, doing the things they say they "protest" against, censoring other networks (DDoS), and exposing people, vulnerabilities, and identities of those who are otherwise anonymous themselves (pastebin postings of databases full of email addresses and their hashes), agendas to expose what people work for the government via contracts (hbgary, cia, fbi, Arizona police, etc). Their motive and manifesto might look holistic and honorable on the surface, but in reality, they do whatever, whenever they want, and think they are above the law and the consequences that come with their actions.

The only difference between them, and normal underground blackhat hackers/criminals, is they come out and announce what they are doing in their campaigns against the people they try to expose, as where the criminal underground for the most part, is more anonymous and underground the the organization "anonymous" to begin with. Calling yourself anonymous and then running around leaving your calling card everywhere you do something, is not exactly anonymous, and if anything, is only exposing the people in the group. Possibly in part, because some of the people in their group who lead or inspire others in the group to do stuff, are purposely pulling strings and causing the puppets to expose themselves in the process, for either their own gain, or personal amusement.

You want to be anonymous, you don't run around announcing everything you do, you don't give physical protests in a Guy Fawkes mask drawing attention to yourself, and you don't join groups of others in committing crimes(when the group is already under surveillance for such things) all while hacking from home with no protections for your identity, IP, etc.

These kids joining in on these attacks, donating bandwidth, following targets handed out by their group, are pawns, and will only get themselves into trouble. The ones with real security skills, not just the ones running vuln scanners and attacks on the low hanging fruits, more than likely do not participate in most of their activities, and could even be calling the shots just for their own amusement, since getting others to do your dirty work keeps you out of the fray.

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I agree. They're mostly a bunch of kids. Half of them don't know what they're doing, but it would be great, if we could show them the benefits of a legal society. Most of them are simply retaliating and wanting to war. I'll join and help in this, but only if we get to make those cool youtube videos, like they do :-) Nothing like a lil truth to show people that their fighting for the wrong team, then they get mad and go attack the other team. I think that should be the point you tell them to just be patient. Anon will all get caught sooner or later (at least the groups of it who are doing illegal stuff.) Good idea trying to convert the "Pawns" to our side though.

They often use the idea that in the civil rights movement, people sat in lunch counters and denied other people service. What they forget to mention, is that the people who did, did it with full facial disclosure. Hmmm. . . Let me see. . . Who was it that covered their faces again :-)

Don't get me wrong, there are times, when anonymous is needed. It's in these times when a person or group are being persecuted, that they put out ideas. They don't do actions anonymously, and anyone who does do an action anonymously is usually up to no good.

It also bothers me, that these kids, think they're making decisions, FOR US ALL, as stated by one of their videos, BUT, THEY FAIL TO CONSULT US ALL.

You may use any of this in your mission statement. I give you full permission.

EDIT: the video you posted was the one I was talking about :-) nice.

Edited by ki4jgt
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It doesn't look like spam to me, as a matter of fact I've also posted a thread on Anonymous on a different matter, so it should be OK.

How can Anonymous have a website, and not be able to be tracked?

EDIT: NM, LOL, I thought you were saying that Anonymous had a public forum :-)

Edited by ki4jgt
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How can Anonymous have a website, and not be able to be tracked?

EDIT: NM, LOL, I thought you were saying that Anonymous had a public forum :-)

Anonymous have several sites actually. Some of which are well known, and even linked to their twitter profiles.

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How are they not traced then?

Calling yourself anonymous is not in itself a crime. Having a website for your hacker group doesn't mean those involved are directly linked with the site or crimes either. Its usually when a crime is committed and connected directly to the person(s) involved, that they usually nab someone. That is, once they identify and locate said people, they go after them, but having twitter accounts and websites of their own generally doesn't tie them directly to an attack or crime. There are hundreds of hackers on this forum, but that doesn't affiliate us with any criminals out there who might also be a registered user of this site. Same goes for those in anonymous who use twitter. The rest of twitter is not affiliated with their actions or crimes, and unless twitter gets subpoenaed for turning over their IP addresses and info(something that probably wouldn't be made public anyway) we wouldn't be the wiser.

Nothing illegal about spouting off about alleged attacks on a website, although its probably not in their best interest to do it from twitter or their websites.

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Guest Deleted_Account

Calling yourself anonymous is not in itself a crime. Having a website for your hacker group doesn't mean those involved are directly linked with the site or crimes either. Its usually when a crime is committed and connected directly to the person(s) involved, that they usually nab someone. That is, once they identify and locate said people, they go after them, but having twitter accounts and websites of their own generally doesn't tie them directly to an attack or crime. There are hundreds of hackers on this forum, but that doesn't affiliate us with any criminals out there who might also be a registered user of this site. Same goes for those in anonymous who use twitter. The rest of twitter is not affiliated with their actions or crimes, and unless twitter gets subpoenaed for turning over their IP addresses and info(something that probably wouldn't be made public anyway) we wouldn't be the wiser.

Nothing illegal about spouting off about alleged attacks on a website, although its probably not in their best interest to do it from twitter or their websites.

Just want to add don't they have a couple of TOR hidden services as well? I read somewhere they did.

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Just want to add don't they have a couple of TOR hidden services as well? I read somewhere they did.

Not sure about TOR specifically, but I think they do have some darknets of their own. IronGeek has done some work on uncovering hidden p2p and chant networks that are used for communication channels, but not sure if any of them were the same ones anonymous uses.

Here are some links, and I only gathered a few, but there are a lot more of them out there:

Edited by digip
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There were a few good talks at DEFCON about anonymous, one that I went to had backtrace security, had a speaker named aherska or something, and a drunk guy named hubris talking about anonymous and how they have gone way off track then how they were created. Then a couple of people from anonymous started heckling them and being pricks. Hubris just egged them on trolling them, but I wonder off my point...Afterwards, there was a Q/A with backtrace security, the main anonymous guy, and a guy in a Guy Fawkes mask, and pedobear. The bear didn't say much, and Hubris and the main anony guy, who was also drunk (it was DEFCON, most everyone was drunk most of the time if you didn't know) bickered and trolled each other, but the aherska woman and Fawkes actually made valid points, and I wish it was just them honestly.

I forgot where I was heading with this again, but my point is there isn't much communicating with anonymous, they are usually driven by anonymous mob mentality, but from what Fawkes told me after the Q/A said that LULZSEC was made of the rational ones of anonymous. I stopped following what they were doing a while ago since I got tired of seeing "Anonymous DDOS's <random site> !", so I wasn't aware LULZSEC kinda broke away, I assumed they were the same, just under a new name.

I think my main point was having any rational discussion with anonymous is kinda pointless, but you might have some luck with LULZSEC. Or I might have misunderstood your entire post, and this has no relevance to anything you were saying

a article about the talk i saw on digg a bit ago, for those interested

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-08-anonymous-antics-hacker-feud.html

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From what I understand, Lulzsec was its own thing, and then joind forces with anonymous, but then again, it doesn't really matter, because I look at the both of them the same. They had the potential for doing important things, yet seems all they do is run around attacking vulnerable websites to steal their databases and then dump it to pastebin.

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You have to keep in mind, it may not even be the original Anonymous who is doing this. In fact, it isn't. Anyone can claim to be Anonymous. That's the problem with Anonymous style justice. It may have good intentions in the first, but after the beginning, it goes bad. My reference, KKK

They started out as a fraturnity. With anonymity, comes lack of responsibility. If Anonymous had a third party which they could use to hold them accountable, they would be a lot better, but then, they wouldn't be anonymous.

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