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okay, so i am setting up the network for a small business. that will be no problem. they will be all connected to internet and to a scanner/copier/printer. tomorrow is when comcast will come out and thats when i will set it up.

this company has a lot of paper work. we are wanting to go digital with it all. just scan it in. i was thinking onto a server.

i was thinking about implementing a server but have never needed to do this yet so have no information on it. so im not sure if a server is what we want and if not hopefully you can shed some light. here is what we need:

the owner of the company to be able to do everything, view documents, delete them add them all the good stuff.

the workers need to be able to access documents to. especially ones there using for clients. but not all of them. and not be allowed to delete them.

we need some documents to be accessible to anyone with a account, and some of the older ones and certain ones to be accessible to only the administrator. we also dont want anyone but the administrator to be able to delete documents. but anyone to add them. and you have to use a administrator account or password to put documents to the admin only section...

so basically documents available to all but put a lock on some of them.

we also only want one copy of each document. no duplicates as in one set for employees and then another set of those plus some for the admin. it would take up to much space.

we need people to be able to access these through there computer. and be able to drag documents to it or to scan to it.

and they need to be able to view them through there computer.

we also need to be able to back this data up onto either a external hard drive or onto a second hard drive on the server in case a hard drive fails.

also possibly back ups of the employees computers to automatically go to the server. every two or three days or something.

the computers are all running windows. i figure we would put linux onto the servers. probably linux ubuntu server addition.

and i think that sums up what we need. basically owner with ultimate access and employees with limited to protect the data in case of a disgruntled employee or lack of knowledge or something stupid.

btw, the scanner has a 80GB hard drive on it so the scanned doc's will go there, we also want it to be forwarded to the server automatically if its scanned to the HD.

Thanks

Kolton K.

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I think you should definitely go with a Windows 2008 Small Business Server if you want to control user access to files, as well as keeping a back up of the files on an external HDD.

With SBS you can create a single share on the server and then specify what level of access each user should have to it, that way you would have more control of who can view, change or delete what files.

Hope this helps

Edited by Infiltrator
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As Infiltrator has said, I would go down the SBS route. Really easy to setup and manage.

Go to Dell and spec up a server with Raid 1 Array and Raid 5, Install the OS on Raid 1 and then stuff all your documents under Raid 5.

You'll be able to use Active Directory (AD) to setup Share Folders and apply Group and User permissions (so HR has access only to HR Folder, Owner has access to everything e.t.c) You'll also be able to use logon scripts so people in Accounts automatically get the Accounts printer installed for them.

I'd also configure Document Redirection and Offline files for all your users, this provides your client documents backup you required (does this by moving "My Doucments" to a network location)

As for backup all of this up? There are hundreds of software products that will schedule your backups for you (I'd recommend Backup Exec, however we are using Acronis at the moment - and I hate it)

If you are doing this on a Super cheap budget < $1000 then I'd look at some of the Netgear ReadyNAS products, they use Raid-X and can provide document protection similar to what is described above, however it won't be as slick.

Also in order to fully intergrate with AD all your client OS's will need to be Business class or Better (Professional or Ultimate)

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That is good info. and as good as small business server 2008 looks, this is on a small budget. i was thinking i would just build the server for them. thats why i was wanting to implement linux is because of the cost. but i dont know the effectiveness of it vs windows server as i never used either.

there would only be about 10 people total on the server. and only 1 or 2 accessing it at any given time. like i said i am no server expert but i was thinking about getting a server case and then a decent mobo and processor with about 2 gigs of RAM. probably grab a 1TB HDD and a good power supply. try to keep the cost way down. i dont think i need special server hardware do i? i could built it like a $400ish computer with a big HDD and then throw linux server on there?

or am i missing something?

btw, thanks for the replies!!

Kolton K.

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I'd look at some kind of NAS, prehaps some of the guys here can comment on FreeNAS e.t.c but I know for a fact that the NetGear ReadyNAS NV+ we have here would do the job for you.

The SBS Setup I was talking cost around £4000, not including any Client Licenses e.g. XP PRO (assumed this network will be a running XP Home)

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YEah, go with a NAS if they want a really cheapo setup. If you set them up something like FreeNAS and they aren't an IT expert, then the second it goes wrong your going to be on the line to fix it. Openfiler does have an SME support option for $780 a year, which is good.

Basically, if the users are not IT litererate/have no on site support, then if you set this up for them you need to get a SLA signed which states what your level of responsibility is, so if you build it and it stops working, legally what is it that you have to do. If you don't, and they loose something important, then they might sue you.

Also, don't piss around building your own server, go to Dell or HP and get a small, cheapish server, with a warranty. I would recommend a HP ProLiant MicroServer running SBS or Server 2008 R2, or if NIX then Openfiler+SME support. Windows is piss easy to recover data from, especially if you use software RAID1.

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Also, don't piss around building your own server, go to Dell or HP and get a small, cheapish server, with a warranty. I would recommend a HP ProLiant MicroServer running SBS or Server 2008 R2, or if NIX then Openfiler+SME support. Windows is piss easy to recover data from, especially if you use software RAID1.

I've noticed that HP and Dell are throwing out some 'entry' level servers rather cheaply now, not sure if they are glorified desktops, but still, I was surprised.

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A lot of SME's who would have previously had SBS and a FS are moving to NAS devices and the cloud? Or would have hired a local IT shop to build them a glorified desktop and run that as a server. With these small servers that are very soon just going to be a BranchCache to the cloud, you can get away with a tiny little box that sits next to the printer, rather than a special room with a half-height rack, UPS and air-con.

The MicroServer looks damn good for the price, my plan is to set one up as a home server come the new year. 4x 3TB drives, Storage Server 2008 R2 + Software RAID1, 6TB of backup/network storage.

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I've noticed that HP and Dell are throwing out some 'entry' level servers rather cheaply now, not sure if they are glorified desktops, but still, I was surprised.

I would agree with MrGrim, and in fact I used to provide on site support for a small private owned business and at one stage they required to upgrade their 3 years problematic server, that was only giving them headaches to new a server.

Point being, I went to Dells website and purchased a PowerEdge T110 Server, the good thing about buying off Dell is that you can customize the specs of your server to meet the business demands and on top of that it comes with 1 year warranty, you could also choose to have on site support, if anything happens.

Whereas if you build the server yourself, you would be liable to anything that happens to it, I never been in this situation myself but i wouldn't want to be in one.

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I would agree with MrGrim, and in fact I used to provide on site support for a small private owned business and at one stage they required to upgrade their 3 years problematic server, that was only giving them headaches to new a server.

Point being, I went to Dells website and purchased a PowerEdge T110 Server, the good thing about buying off Dell is that you can customize the specs of your server to meet the business demands and on top of that it comes with 1 year warranty, you could also choose to have on site support, if anything happens.

Whereas if you build the server yourself, you would be liable to anything that happens to it, I never been in this situation myself but i wouldn't want to be in one.

Dell locks you in with their internal footprint, unless things have changed. Wait till you see what the upgrade costs are, then you might have second thoughts. After the capacitor debacle, it would be hard for me to even think about getting Dell.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/1...tm_campaign=rss

Edited by inventoman
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Dell locks you in with their internal footprint, unless things have changed. Wait till you see what the upgrade costs are, then you might have second thoughts. After the capacitor debacle, it would be hard for me to even think about getting Dell.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/1...tm_campaign=rss

I only bought from Dell because the owners were Indians and Indians a very cheap people. All their workstation computers were from Dell, not a single HP computer, I tried getting them to buy from HP but they were very stubborn. I personally don't like Dell computers, I find them very problematic to have.

I've always bought computer gear from Asus, Gigabyte and HP and never had any bad experience or issues.

Edited by Infiltrator
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I would disagree. Never had a problem with a Dell system that they didn't fix the next business day, or in some cases within 4hrs. Who cares if they lock you in with special motheboards, by the time you want to replace the motherboard, its time to get a new machine (if you go with 3 year on site NBD/4hr, which is standard in Europe). HP take much longer to fix anything ime.

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Dell locks you in with their internal footprint, unless things have changed. Wait till you see what the upgrade costs are, then you might have second thoughts. After the capacitor debacle, it would be hard for me to even think about getting Dell.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/1...tm_campaign=rss

Absolute poppy cock, what possible problems will you have with upgrading? On ALL critical systems you’d be foolish not to have 3 year NBD warranties (last time I looked, which was a few days ago when I posted some info on this, the upgrade from 1 year [standard] to 3 year was something like £200)

The only problems I have ever had with Dell systems are as follows, a 5 year old Optiplex I gave to my parents had a motherboard failure which I had to fix by buying a replacement board off eBay.

A graphics card in my friend’s 3 ½ year old Dimension packed in and he tried to replace it with something more modern only to have the PSU issue (not enough power) he couldn’t buy an off the shelf PSU so had to buy a less powerful GPU.

Memory, Processors, GPU, NICS, and Drives can all be replaced just as easily as any other manufacturer. Upgrading disk drives on a Dell PERC Array is as per any other array, replace the drive and rebuild the array.

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Absolute poppy cock, what possible problems will you have with upgrading? On ALL critical systems you’d be foolish not to have 3 year NBD warranties (last time I looked, which was a few days ago when I posted some info on this, the upgrade from 1 year [standard] to 3 year was something like £200)

The only problems I have ever had with Dell systems are as follows, a 5 year old Optiplex I gave to my parents had a motherboard failure which I had to fix by buying a replacement board off eBay.

A graphics card in my friend’s 3 ½ year old Dimension packed in and he tried to replace it with something more modern only to have the PSU issue (not enough power) he couldn’t buy an off the shelf PSU so had to buy a less powerful GPU.

Memory, Processors, GPU, NICS, and Drives can all be replaced just as easily as any other manufacturer. Upgrading disk drives on a Dell PERC Array is as per any other array, replace the drive and rebuild the array.

I do have some old legacy brown dells. They still run. I use them for automation control and local servers. The hd's are beginning to go bad. Since ide drives are the exception now I will either have to gpxe to iscsi or something of the like.

Dells are great as long as you have a warranty. I have seen many many black dells die within a day of the warranty expiring. When I was a tech we would send off for replacement parts just before the end of the warranty even if they still worked to avoid the planned obsolescence. If you have systems that you can not afford to be down, a one day turn around does not mean much. Dell is spending a lot of money in India. Guess where all their support people are. We call Dells, New Delhi's. A lot of good hard working Americans lost their jobs because of Dell moving their operations overseas. Dell does not need our money.

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I do have some old legacy brown dells. They still run. I use them for automation control and local servers. The hd's are beginning to go bad. Since ide drives are the exception now I will either have to gpxe to iscsi or something of the like.

Dells are great as long as you have a warranty. I have seen many many black dells die within a day of the warranty expiring. When I was a tech we would send off for replacement parts just before the end of the warranty even if they still worked to avoid the planned obsolescence. If you have systems that you can not afford to be down, a one day turn around does not mean much. Dell is spending a lot of money in India. Guess where all their support people are. We call Dells, New Delhi's. A lot of good hard working Americans lost their jobs because of Dell moving their operations overseas. Dell does not need our money.

i hate calling support and getting someone that doesnt speak fluent english. microsoft is that way when me and a friend were trying to get a xbox problem fixed and today with HP i had to call them, first one was not very clear english the next was fine though.

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Dude...

This doesn't have to be complicated or expensive.

Head to Dell's Website or eBuyer! Grab yourself a entry level server.

Make sure you have some type of RAID there for redundancy. Also grab yourself a cheap NAS.

In my opinion you could slash your costs whacking CentOS 5.5 on there with Samba Server to do the Windows Domain/File Sharing role.

Just incase you don't know what CentOS is, it's pretty much Redhat Enterprise Linux 5 but community supported.

There are plenty of tutorials around for setting up CentOS to do all sorts.

If you need help though just post on here or PM me.

Cheers

Matt

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  • 1 month later...

BTW, you mentioned they wanted to go digital, scanning in a ton of docs, etc. We recommend this...

Panasonic KV-S2026C

We've sold several of these to our clients and it cranks as a scanner. Is fast, does over 20PPM both sides in 600dpi color, very reliable (doesn't jam all the time), has a good sized 120page feeder, etc.

Ok L8R

Edited by Sparda
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...In my opinion you could slash your costs whacking CentOS 5.5 on there with Samba Server to do the Windows Domain/File Sharing role...

Not trying to be a stickler, but wouldn't that essentially ruin any group policies set in place if they are running Windows DC's? Last time I checked, Samba and 2003+ didn't like to work properly with each other. I could be very wrong though since it's been awhile since I've played with Samba.

Also, why hasn't anyone bothered asking how the OP is planning on handling permissions? Half of what he was asking for were permission based group policies for file sharing.

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Not trying to be a stickler, but wouldn't that essentially ruin any group policies set in place if they are running Windows DC's? Last time I checked, Samba and 2003+ didn't like to work properly with each other. I could be very wrong though since it's been awhile since I've played with Samba.

Also, why hasn't anyone bothered asking how the OP is planning on handling permissions? Half of what he was asking for were permission based group policies for file sharing.

Very true and I am not 100% certain whether Linux OS support group polices, I know they support file permissions but not group policies.

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Very true and I am not 100% certain whether Linux OS support group polices, I know they support file permissions but not group policies.

Since I was curious I read up on this. It pretty much worked like I assumed it would. First you would associate the MS users/groups with the *nix users/groups. Then you would end up managing the file permissions at the local level on the *nix server. This would be sort of a dirty bandage if you're one of those admins who wants all of their users and rules centralized. If not, then have at it~

Edited by mux
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Since I was curious I read up on this. It pretty much worked like I assumed it would. First you would associate the MS users/groups with the *nix users/groups. Then you would end up managing the file permissions at the local level on the *nix server. This would be sort of a dirty bandage if you're one of those admins who wants all of their users and rules centralized. If not, then have at it~

I remember several years ago, when I took a course in Security at the university I went to. We did a lot of Linux IP tables and File Permissions and other security stuff, but I still remember that back then we used Windows to apply GP to all machines on the network.

I think group policy is a Windows thing only.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

I have recently moved to an new employer who had Dell as their hardware vendor. Now overall I feel the HP stuff is better made but Dell have performed admirably, and I would have to say the customer service I have had from them has exceeded Hp in most aspects.

To reinforce the points raised in here, if they want ultra cheap go the NAS route but my recommendation is to but an entry level server from Dell or HP. If you're just helping them out you don't want to be tied to supporting it especially if hardware breaks.

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