ssmithisme Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 There is no fucking logic in the world(united states at leased) anymore, Its just a bunch of whiny people. And most people just go with it. <<< LOGIC CHECK >>> Error! Invalid Argument.(literally) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_s Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 NullArray I did NOT post this for just trolling but fine if it helps you believe your right if those with opposing views are trolls fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digip Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Society has to realize that in order to sustain our way of life we are goign to have to start recycling things, conserving natural resources and inventing new ways to keep us moving. Alternative, sustainable, clean energy is just part of the picture. Anything that helps reduce city smog and clean the air around us is a good thing, so why people would fight against this is just crazy to me. Even if it costs us a little more from the get go, until we have the science and technology to mass produce cheap, cost effective and sustainable clean energy, we are only going to pay for it one way or another, and I'd rather do it with the sense that its for our future, and not for the pockets of the oil companies and their stock holders who don't give a damn about the environment so long as their portfolio makes them money. I think its fairy evident during my life, that I can surely tell that something in the environment around me has changed. Wether its "global warming" on the level of Al Gore and his warnings, paranoia by the media, or truly a problem of epic proportiosn, I truly beleive we as humans have directly caused harm to the environment that will not ever be corrected unless we work torwards cleaner technology as a whole. Its so obvious to see there is a problem with the waste and polution, its not even a debate abotu global warming, but an eye opener that we have killed ourselves in the process of ignoring what we do to the earth. Man will not have a chance to kill each otehr in war, because we will exhaust all our natural resources, kill off the food supply, and poison all our life supporting nutrients and agriculture. Why are so many people around the world working to conserve and protect these reosurces if there isn't a real problem? Why is it you can't catch and eat fish without mercury poisoning, and the worry of flame retadants in womens breast milk from seafood? Why is it that we have to add nutrients to the soil when growing food? We have depleted our life supporting nutrients, and its been proven that the food we eat today contains less and less of the important nutrients that food contained over the last century. From pesticides to fertilizers that cause rain runoff killing the surrounding vegitation and local animals, poisened by toxic cocktails of agriculture waste and over farming, over expansion and clear cutting, we need to think about who the real endangerd species are, because we will be on that list one day. Its not a matter of if, but when, if we don't correct our wastefull and harmfull ways to the very things that keep us alive. It may not happen 10 years from now, or 50 years from now, but its goign down that road and I can see it in the area I grew up in. The air quality has gone down, the land has become barren and dried from erosion, less and less fields and trees, and more concrete and pavement. Even the food does not taste the same as it used to so we have switched to all organics, which once you switch for a few weeks and then go back, you will notice a HUGE difference in both the taste and the way you feel after eating it. Sure, it costs a bit more, but I feel better giving my kids healthier foods free of hormones and pesticides and other cancer causing agents. If we spent half as much time working on cleaner alternative technologies as we did drilling for oil and hiking energy prices, we would all be profitable in a more responsible direction, where more people could get behind these technologies to invest in an alternative that is both a good purchase for their dollar, but good for the longevity of life down the road and the environment around us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_s Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 digip good points good points, I am fine with cleaning air and recycling (I recycle it doesn't cost me anything, I get money back (pop cans)). But my problem with this is that it is a save the earth mentality, not a betterment of life. Also introduce new cars but let the private sector do that, then there will be a wide range of options because people want them (supply and demand), let the government do what it is suppose to, protect the people, before WWI and the Great Depression that government was not nearly as invasive and it worked, go back to that. The problem with government trying to force companies to This bill will put smaller, more efficient cars on the road, swap smokestacks for windmills and solar panels, and transform the appliances you can buy for your home." is that it has no competition, the private sector does. Imagine if AMD and Intel joined together there would be NO competition, they would jack up prices and with no other option people would either have to use older and older hardware of pay up, it is like protection money there are two options both not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssmithisme Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Society has to realize that in order to sustain our way of life we are goign to have to start recycling things, conserving natural resources and inventing new ways to keep us moving. Alternative, sustainable, clean energy is just part of the picture. Anything that helps reduce city smog and clean the air around us is a good thing, so why people would fight against this is just crasy to me. Even if it costs us a little more from the get go, until we have the science and technology to mass produce cheap, cost effective and sustainable clean energy, we are only going to pay for it one way or another, and I'd rather do it with the sense that its for our future, and not for the pockets of the oil companies and their stock holders who don't give a damn about the environment so long as their portfolio makes them money. I think its fairy evident during my life, that I can surely tell that something in the environment around me has changed. Wether its "global warming" on the level of Al Gore and his warnings, paranoia by the media, or truly a problem of epic proportiosn, I truly beleive we as humans have directly caused harm to the environment that will not ever be corrected unless we work torwards cleaner technology as a whole. Its so obvious to see there is a problem with the waste and polution, its not even a debate abotu global warming, but an eye opener that we have killed ourselves in the process of ignoring what we do to the earth. Man will not have a chance to kill each otehr in war, because we will exhaust all our natural resources, kill off the food supply, and poison all our life supporting nutrients and agriculture. Why are so many people around the world working to conserve and protect these reosurces if there isn't a real problem? Why is it you can't catch and eat fish without mercury poisoning, and the worry of flame retadants in womens breast milk from seafood? Why is it that we have to add nutrients to the soil when growing food? We have depleted our life supporting nutrients, and its been proven that the food we eat today contains less and less of the important nutrients that food contained over the last century. From pesticides to fertilizers that cause rain runoff killing the surrounding vegitation and local animals, poisened by toxic cocktails of agriculture waste and over farming, over expansion and clear cutting, we need to think about who the real endangerd species are, because we will be on that list one day. Its not a matter of if, but when, if we don't correct our wastefull and harmfull ways to the very things that keep us alive. It may not happen 10 years from now, or 50 years from now, but its goign down that road and I can see it in the area I grew up in. The air quality has gone down, the land has become barren and dried from erosion, less and less fields and trees, and more concrete and pavement. Even the food does not taste the same as it used to so we have switched to all organics, which once you switch for a few weeks and then go back, you will notice a HUGE difference in both the taste and the way you feel after eating it. Sure, it costs a bit more, but I feel better giving my kids healthier foods free of hormones and pesticides and other cancer causing agents. If we spent half as much time working on cleaner alternative technologies as we did drilling for oil and hiking energy prices, we would all be profitable in a more responsible direction, where more people could get behind these technologies to invest in an alternative that is both a good purchase for their dollar, but good for the longevity of life down the road and the environment around us. Excellent! There is no logic in politics, arguing is not helping anything. We need to use the environment is a efficient way, as i said before. There is WAY too many man made products. We as humans are extremely wasteful and are indeed going to cause catastrophic harm to the planet. But as far the the immediate problem of global warming I believe that it is a natural phase of the earth. There have been other hot periods in time. The immediate panic, has been caused by media, and people not grasping the concept that the earth moves. Once again, I am not saying that we are not hurting the planet, because we are. We need to fix this. Citizens, Corporation and Governments/ Society as a whole needs to put a stop to wasteful ways. We should be investing and researching more efficient cleaner technologies, we have the ability to accomplish many amazing feats. But politics isnt going to help. We NEED logic. [EDIT] And the corporations need to stop being greedy. And create cheaper cleaner and more efficient tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_s Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 ssmithisme well put, but it needs to be private sector I think h3%5kr3w put it best You hit the nail on the head, except for one thing... The environment will not be any cleaner than it is now, and it will never be. Even if it is, this will just turn into a spiral effect that the gov. and the environmentalists will shove down our throats until they find something else to make money on. Unfortunately this is the biggest money making pyramid scheme that has ever been dreamed up, so buckle up kiddies, your in for a real crappy ride for the rest of our lives. Oh that 22" flatpanel you bought last year.. yeaahh.. well you'll need to replace that one with this one that is 12" smaller and takes less electricity to use.. oh, and btw, that will be 3x what you paid for the previous one. Oh that car you barely bought for $6000 a couple years ago that get's 28mpg.. yeahh... well, you will need to trade that too for this hybrid that get's 45mpg.. oh, and btw, that will be around $30,000 with no options, but you need to get it quick since gas will be going up to $14 per gallon soon. Oh that 12mbps internet connection you have.. well the servers are sucking too much electricity, so in turn we are going to be making everyone go with virtualized servers and routers running @ half the power but unfortunately it's going to cost the telco/cable companies billions to implement.. so were going to cap your net connection to around 800 megs per month and charge you 2x what your paying now. Oh that house you bought and your striving to pay for? Well we are now requiring new insulating materials to be implemented to cut your power consumption, which will take around $5000 for very small houses and going up as the cubic feet increases, and btw, if you don't your insurance will be going up around $6000/year, and your power bill will be going up considerably as well.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_s Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 ssmithisme STOP being greedy... um no The whole point for a corporation is to make a profit so greed will always be a part [but still the government should not get involved](in [] about cap and trade bill not greed). This all needs to be private sector Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssmithisme Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 ssmithisme well put, but it needs to be private sector I think h3%5kr3w put it best The first paragraph I especially agree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_s Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 ssmithisme including private sector part? if so thank God. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also what do you guys think of the EPA silencing a write up opposing global warming Slashdot http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/06/27/23...rming?art_pos=2 Article PDF http://cei.org/cei_files/fm/active/0/DOC062509-004.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssmithisme Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 ssmithisme STOP being greedy... um no The whole point for a corporation is to make a profit so greed will always be a part but still the government should not get involved. This all needs to be private sector Theres a difference between profit, and flying your private jet to your bailout meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimmer Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Ok here is a youtube playlist with all 8 parts of the series, it is so good I am downloading it :) http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=EA20B42EAE54782A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssmithisme Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zeGY8zbzc8 more info, no reading involved even :) Nice vid. Global Warming is very dressed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimmer Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I was trying to remember a point, I now have... We are the ones polluting the US and the big cars etc... but Mexico South America, India, China, Japan, Asia are much worse, and the pollution spreads we are not nearly as bad it isn't are so called bad habits it is pollution from those places not us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssmithisme Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I watched the beck vid. I am a fan of Glen Beck and he brought up a point, and I have noticed this trend not just with scientists though. He said "Scientists are never wrong in the present, they are only wrong in the past" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimmer Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Almost done watching the videos and the global warming theory just makes me laugh, it is hilarity. More videos, diffrent series there was a video before this but it was removed! Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digip Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Why not invest in something better? Sure, it may cost more at first, but once we find a way to produce cleaner, safer, affordable and easily mass produced energy, the world will be better for it in the long run. I would much rather pay a bit more for cleaner energy now so that the environmental effects are a positive one for my children and their children, versus continuing to pollute the air, land and sea with the current technology in place, all while the prices still continue to rise anyway. Do people think that gas prices will get cheaper? It will only cost us more in the long run, both in money and in damage to our earth, so if we are going to have to pay more anyway, then make that energy clean burning, efficient and nature conserving for our future and our children’s future. Generations to come will benefit from the sacrifice to find these new alternatives, but if we can’t make that change now, it will be future generations who pay the price for our mistakes and lack of change. Regardles sof whether or not you believe in global warming, there is a problem with pollution at large, and like you pointed out, its nto just the US, but around the world. So why let it continue? Energy prices will rise no matter what we do, but at least if we invest in cleaner technology the world will be better off for it. No one can stop the incresed costs at our current rate of consumption. Demand is supposed to drive down prices, but that does not seem to apply to the gas companies, where the prices only seem to go higher every year. Even home heating costs and electricity go up each year. We need to find ways to get off the grid and be energy independant, both at the national and local level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_s Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 Ok digip sure better CHEAPER energy, but don't pin it on global warming :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimmer Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 digip you still lable it as dirty but it isn't. Also in supply and demand if supply is to low to feed the demand prices go UP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digip Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 digip you still lable it as dirty but it isn't. Also in supply and demand if supply is to low to feed the demand prices go UP So when has demand for oil and gas gone down, yet prices still rise? Opec even said there was no reason for the price hike, as output levels had not fallen and most countries, us included, were sitting on stock piles of gasoline. I understand the process of dupply and demand, but my point was it does not seem to apply to gas prices at the pump. At least not the past few years. Ok digip sure better CHEAPER energy, but don't pin it on global warmingAs I said before, "regardless" of what people believe about global warming... You can take "global warming" out of the equation if you want, and there is STILL a fundamental problem with waste and pollution. That is not a matter of opinion, but a fact, and the environmental impact is evident in all parts of the world, not just here in the U.S. bob_s, I never blamed anything on "Global Warming", so don't put words in my mouth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h3%5kr3w Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Well from here on out, I am not going to comment on all of this with the major point of global warming and pollution, but I will have to add something about Glen Beck... I used to be a big fan of him till I noticed something that took me awhile to put together. He jumps on whatever Rush Limbaugh was talking about the day before (or if it's breaking news that he knows Rush will cover then he will cover it that morning), and then BLOW it right out of proportion. There are Bullshitters on the Right too, not just the left. Just remember what the tagline for the show is "A fusion of entertainment and enlightenment" It says nothing about truth. BTW this does not mean I am swaying my opinion. I am just stating that just because he is a more republican than a democratic person, does not mean he is right. And we all know Rush Limbaugh is a money feeding hose hooked to a shitbag hooked up to a microphone (and obviously the extreme right is the one feeding him all the money) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssmithisme Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Well from here on out, I am not going to comment on all of this with the major point of global warming and pollution, but I will have to add something about Glen Beck... I used to be a big fan of him till I noticed something that took me awhile to put together. He jumps on whatever Rush Limbaugh was talking about the day before (or if it's breaking news that he knows Rush will cover then he will cover it that morning), and then BLOW it right out of proportion. There are Bullshitters on the Right too, not just the left. Just remember what the tagline for the show is "A fusion of entertainment and enlightenment" It says nothing about truth. BTW this does not mean I am swaying my opinion. I am just stating that just because he is a more republican than a democratic person, does not mean he is right. And we all know Rush Limbaugh is a money feeding hose hooked to a shitbag hooked up to a microphone (and obviously the extreme right is the one feeding him all the money) lawl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seshan Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 If you watch American media and believe it, I understand your thoughts it this thread. Hey, does anyone remember this thing called the "Swine Flu". Shouldn't we all be dead by now? The media made millions from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKo Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Glen Beck is a complete nut job... TBH, its not worth debating with morons, human induced climate change is very real, and it would appear that only Americans are still debating this. A bit like evolution really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimmer Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Seshan I did not believe the swine flu bull shit for a second, just like global warming. Um Vako Global warming is bullshit and the link I gave you was a BRITISH study, also that is a problem with the left they just say your a moron because you have a different view instead if presenting tangible evidence. Obama's EPA just shot down a 98 page report about the lies of global warming, not because of science, but just saying basically that they where morons. Vako I don't understand how you can believe in global warming please watch the Youtube playlist I link to above it will show you that global warming is just a power and money drive, power for politicians and evirometalist (power to control your life) and money for scientist (to get funding for what they want to study) they show that in the link above. Of course you are to closed minded. So who is the real moron, the one willing to debate and look at the issue or the one of blind belief calling all others morons? Also what is wrong with debating evolution, if your side is so strong and logical, the only thing debate will bring is more people coming to your side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKo Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Its not global warming, its a human induced climate change, which includes things like deforestation, increased urbanization of land, rising population numbers, air pollution, massive reductions in fish stocks and converting yet more land into farms. How can you say that the impact of global industrialization in the last 100 years has had no impact on the climate? Carbon di-oxide levels are a very small part of this portfolio of problems. When people talk about global warming they are ignoring lots of other things, and yes it has been hijacked by political activists, but that doesn't discount the fact that we are having a negative effect on the planet as a whole. As for the youtube documentory, its a typical Channel 4 pseudo science hatchet job that has a lot of quotes and opinions but lax on actual science. It was made for entertainment value, and not for an actual unbiased view on the subject. Here is the debunking: http://www.durangobill.com/Swindle_Swindle.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...3/science.media http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Glo...Warming_Swindle Climate change isn't something you can dismiss with a TV show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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