BR3NTON3 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Hey all - I read the "read me first" thing before asking my dumbass question - and am now prepared for the flames... But I am so not a video guy... and am seeking some guidance and advice here. OK, I have a site - and we "broadcast" things from time to time... but tie into various underground feeds, and basically just pass them along via a live embedding player... Last night, we had a HUGE event - and was a great draw... however, "the powers to be", have very deep pockets, and apparently very good "trackers", as they would shut down a feed within 5-10 mins of it being set up... These were all being uhmmm "how you say American?" - hosted I guess - on j u s t i n . t v... so there ya go.. now you know what's going on... Anyway - this kinda pissed off about 1500 of my "friends"... and so I'd "change channels", and add a new one... But as soon as I would add a new feed, they'd shut that one down (again, not ME being shut down, just the feed from the aforementioned source...) So I sat tonight wondering - How the hell could *I* best do this... without uhmmm how you say? Getting busted ... Since you guys obviously deal with video day in and day out - and on the interweb... thought I'd ask for some "rough ideas" how someone may be able to pull this off, without having to rely on a "uStream" or the likes - Actually, I have that part sorted already (I think LOL)... What I'm really asking is what equipment do I need to get my video source (aka TV/CBL/SAT) to MY server - and then out the the web LIVE? The second (and more important) part of that equation would then be - how BEST to "protect" my server from being traced and shut down.. esp since it resides in-house? I don't know if this matters or not, but this would only be "active" for 2 hours a week x 12 times a year... but am on a local "cable provider" and don't want to risk being shut off - or worse - a butt buddy in the local Pen! :( Anyone have any suggestions how best to pull this off? Feel free to PM me if all this is too ... whatever... you know what I mean. Thanks! B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKo Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 VPN the stream to a server located in some 3rd world banana republic in a substantially different timezone or somewhere like China. That way unless they can trace the source your streaming from (I'm guessing this is your cable TV service) back to you and shut this down they will be forced to deal with people who don't speak there language, are in a different timezone and may well be asleep when they call to have it pulled. VLC would be able to do this, coupled with some QoS to handle the upload to china. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR3NTON3 Posted April 19, 2009 Author Share Posted April 19, 2009 VPN the stream to a server located in some 3rd world banana republic in a substantially different timezone or somewhere like China. That way unless they can trace the source your streaming from (I'm guessing this is your cable TV service) back to you and shut this down they will be forced to deal with people who don't speak there language, are in a different timezone and may well be asleep when they call to have it pulled. VLC would be able to do this, coupled with some QoS to handle the upload to china. Thanks VaKo... I understand what you're saying - I'm just still trying to piece together how that may work (in reality)... I mean, it makes sense.... but not sure how well blasting a live feed to BFE Asia would do - then coming back - then back out to the net... plus 1000+ people hitting it... so - I have some logistical things to sort out and ponder. Excuse my ignorance, but the only VLC I'm familiar with is the video ripping tool for Mac... but suspect that's not what you were referring to - or were you? If so, not sure how I see that helping with this scenario - and yes, the "source" would be either cable or sat tv... I've been researching VPN for awhile now since Darren/Matt made mention of it on an older episode... But do you have one that you prefer? Is OpenVPN worth a flip? or can you suggest another? Many thanks! B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKo Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Its a trade off, streaming to china, or south America through a VPN to a server which hosts the service that streams to the clients will be slower but harder to trace as the stream is accesible from a server hosted in that country only and tracing the connection back to its source will require backend access to the system in question. Streaming to uStream means you can take advantage of the systems they have setup to stream to the end user but will be shut down faster as they will probally have dedicated people making sure you can't do this. So you basically setup your own ustream-esq server and stream to the web via that. VLC has more features than you think, primarily it can take any type of audio/visual stream and pipe it out to a multitude of different streams and files. Take a look at: http://www.videolan.org/vlc/features.html http://www.videolan.org/vlc/streaming.html http://wiki.videolan.org/Documentation:Streaming_HowTo OpenVPN is good, multi-os support and tons of documented examples, but personally I prefer IPsec although its less simple to setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR3NTON3 Posted April 19, 2009 Author Share Posted April 19, 2009 So you basically setup your own ustream-esq server and stream to the web via that. This is EXACTLY what I wish to do... So thanks for that... as you've confirmed that this is the route I wish to pursue now :) Now, how to do it in 6 days! LOL Had no idea VLC did all that - but have it, and use it allot - so will research that more... as well as SA "servers".. Hmmm - that's gonna take some work... What device would I place between my "source" and my server and the "foreign" server to get them all "talking"? I mean, I load my local with VPN of choice - set up a offshore server... ping it back... (again, not knowing VLC capabilities yet) - I guess I'm making a shopping list of sorts - and wanna make sure I have all this right. Lastly, on HakStalkers (or HakHouse for that matter) do you know what chat script they're running below the 2 screens? is it Open/GPL? As that is kinda the same set up I want in the end - but with just the one feed... Hey, I really appreciate all your help here! Been great! Cheers, Brent PS: Vako - let me add this, as I just went and looked at all the VLC stuff - that IS very impressive had no idea... and also think that answers my last question posed to you... so, as they say "never mind" LOL - That said though, per the attached diagram - I'm gonna set up a VLC server... I'm gonna run Unix... do you know how many horses that'll take as the "go-between"? I also see it only shows SAT and Antenna (terrestrial) input - not cable? is that a codec issue or something? - the rest seems pretty straight forward - but I like it!! :) Very cool man... very cool - thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKo Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 The basic idea is that you input whatever it is your streaming via some form of capture card, this I assume you have already. You then setup a VPN connection on this computer which connects this machine to your server via a secured tunnel. You just need the 2 machines to have a route between them which allow you to talk via IP address. Then you setup VLC to take the stream from your capture input and stream it over to your server via the tunnel using something like UDP, MMS or RTS. On your server you take the input from the stream and setup a 2nd instance of VLC to stream it out to your viewers using similar methods. As for a flash page that does this a la ustream, I don't know enough about this step. The vpn bit isn't entirely nessacary, it just makes it harder for your ISP to figure out what your doing (especially if your getting cable and internet from the same outfit), you can stream directly to the server without one but they will clock you faster. So, no need to buy anything other than a monthly server rental here, all you are doing is replacing the bit that streams it to your views with a homebrew version you control located somewhere with laxer IP and copyright laws thus making you responsible for any takedown request your service recives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR3NTON3 Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 The basic idea is that you input whatever it is your streaming via some form of capture card, this I assume you have already. You then setup a VPN connection on this computer which connects this machine to your server via a secured tunnel. You just need the 2 machines to have a route between them which allow you to talk via IP address. Then you setup VLC to take the stream from your capture input and stream it over to your server via the tunnel using something like UDP, MMS or RTS. On your server you take the input from the stream and setup a 2nd instance of VLC to stream it out to your viewers using similar methods. As for a flash page that does this a la ustream, I don't know enough about this step. The vpn bit isn't entirely necessary, it just makes it harder for your ISP to figure out what your doing (especially if your getting cable and internet from the same outfit), you can stream directly to the server without one but they will clock you faster. So, no need to buy anything other than a monthly server rental here, all you are doing is replacing the bit that streams it to your views with a homebrew version you control located somewhere with laxer IP and copyright laws thus making you responsible for any takedown request your service receives. Hi Vako - For some reason I missed your reply till just now... sorry... I really want to thank you for breaking this down for me! - Been doing allot more research since we started this convo - and most of the info I've found mirrors what you've shared here... so think I'm on the right path... so thanks again for all the help. One, err, two question areas have popped up though... I found this link that goes into allot of detail about streaming VLC - http://wiki.videolan.org/Documentation:Str.../Easy_Streaming However, it says (or I think it says?) that the "streaming" bit on Linux/Mac has some limitations and seems a Windoze server would be a better fit... I was planning on running Ubunta... but now - seems I may have to make a WinMediaServer (?) - but need to research this more... Either way, it sounds like you've done this before (or maybe do it for Hak5?) - but thought you all had a Mac Server doing the deed? I dunno... As to the 2nd and last part.. Your assumption about me having a capture device would normally be correct.. but I've been holding off on that till I sorted out which O/S I was going to be using... as well as researching devices and which ones would suit this scenario best... Point being, no, I haven't bought one yet... But am definitely open to suggestions as that is my "missing link" at the moment... I've been looking at the Haupaugge stuff - but seems a bit over the top... Or is there any other device (go-between) that may work? My "topology" (for a lack of a better term) is to go from my TiVo DVR - to media server (via ???) protected by VPN out to "offshore server" - then pinged back.. and then out for broadcast (I know I skipped a few steps) but that is the 40,000 ft overview the way I see it... The tunneling bit is a bit confusing to me too... but will try to sort that as I build and install and test things.... Anyway - sorry for the ramblings... but wanted to thank you for the help (other boards have been dicks about it) as well as get your ideas on a solid capture device... Have a good weekend - B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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