nullArray Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 What does a 3 year old do with a computer?... At some point you realize the age of child and the use of computers during that stage in thier life isn't a good idea. Twitter! Probably a correct argument. Just because a 3 year old can apparently use a computer, doesn't mean that it makes education in a generic public school better or more beneficial in the long run. EDIT: Albeit computer education is of course important, math/science/english/reading comprehension/etc should come first at almost all costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKo Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I don't have kids but I support your choice Vector, its a good move and one that will likely set him up in good stead for the future. An Indian physicist, Sugata Mitra, puts a PC with a high speed internet connection in a wall in the slums and watches what happens. Based on the results, he talks about issues of digital divide, computer education and kids, the dynamics of the third world getting online. http://www.greenstar.org/butterflies/Hole-in-the-Wall.htm http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/sugata_...themselves.html However, I will also stand by my remarks about laptops not working within the confines of the modern education system, until the education system is reformed to focus more on providing kids with the support, resources and skills to teach them how to learn this will remain so. Currently its just focused on teaching kids to do well in standardized tests, and while this looks good on paper it lacks any long term vision and will not provide the caliber of people we need for our future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destro Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I actually have been thinking bout this a lot. I think with filters and parental, controls, and etc... That the kids will lose interest and thus resulting in them treating the computers badly or trying to bypass everything. I am not opposed to it, but that is just what I think so far. Not sure on final decsion yet. cheers, Destro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahimahi42 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 At my old middle school, 7th and 8th graders got white MacBooks in a similar situation. They were mildly helpful, as the computer labs were always full, and it was nice going online to access extra related material, but it was pretty much pointless. The school division's filter blocked out pretty much everything (except for Hak.5, as I recently found out ^_^), and they blocked out the cool programs like Terminal. Thing was, they had a few 5TB servers in the library so teachers could send students work and so students could backup their work, but the only security they put on them was the internet filter, and a user/pass combo. Now, the school was split between the regular kids, and the gifted kids (us). The regular kids never did anything...good(grey hat I mean)...but we did, and often. Notes were electronically sent, and the wi-fi they put in at the end of the year didn't even have the filter on it until after they took the laptops back. But alProxy-Connection: keep-alive Cache-Control: max-age=0 us kids got the universal password easily with some ingenuity. Point being, know the kids you're giving the laptops to. Or, at least, give it some kind of security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vector Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 it is a lot easier to say "MY COMPUTER IS BROKETED" to get out of doing homework. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swathe Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Children using computers early is fine if it's monitored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimmer Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Computers and kids are fine. But also kids do make messes etc. Also it could help them learn from and like technology. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
still learning Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 shit I learned alot trying to get my c64 game "Bards tale" to work.. with every error i got the more i learned. eventually i had my own h4x0r BBS system by 7-8th grade which was a ACiD and iCE ansi distro site back in the days, and was learning how to create networks, PBX systems, dail up protocols like Z-modem, modify my wwiv/obv/2 bbs system's C code to create the look i wanted for my board, set up voting systems for new members, ect.. I learned tons of stuff by starting on pc's early. I see nothing wrong with it, but like I and others said above it would not be the greatest laptop prob some scrapper that can do the basics, if the kid is smart enough to get around the security protection and stuff more power to him. Thats a future hacker. The majority of the kids probuly wont take it that far though and just use it to go on the internet or study school work and play games, ect.. how the child uses the computer is mainly the parents responsibility to watch over them and make sure they use it properly. The school can also track it since it would be school property (the laptop) as a backup incase the kid has fucked up parents who dont give a shit. Could also put lojack in the pc.. see if they are skipping school or not ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nullArray Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 shit I learned alot trying to get my c64 game "Bards tale" to work.. with every error i got the more i learned. eventually i had my own h4x0r BBS system by 7-8th grade which was a ACiD and iCE ansi distro site back in the days, and was learning how to create networks, PBX systems, dail up protocols like Z-modem, modify my wwiv/obv/2 bbs system's C code to create the look i wanted for my board, set up voting systems for new members, ect.. I learned tons of stuff by starting on pc's early. I see nothing wrong with it, but like I and others said above it would not be the greatest laptop prob some scrapper that can do the basics, if the kid is smart enough to get around the security protection and stuff more power to him. Thats a future hacker. The majority of the kids probuly wont take it that far though and just use it to go on the internet or study school work and play games, ect.. You learned a lot about computers and hardware. You learned nothing about math, reading comprehension, english, science, writing skills, etc etc etc..., Which is more important for 99% of the population? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
still learning Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 You learned a lot about computers and hardware. You learned nothing about math, reading comprehension, english, science, writing skills, etc etc etc..., Which is more important for 99% of the population? No, I learned about the above said topics, im actully pretty good at everythiing said, except for math. I would rather be in that 1% of the population anyways, What are you one of the anti-computers for the youth people? Without the computer I received early on i would have probuly been alot worse at those subjects in school then I am now. Yeah!.. that would be pretty bad huh? hehe and like said above "Why does a 3 year old need a computer"? A good friend of mine has a 3 year old and she loves to play the Dora the explorer computer game. She even knows how to press the power button and start up the video game from the desktop to play! I know adults who dont know how to turn a computer on and run a video game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimmer Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Computers This is all IMO, if you disagree state why please maybe my views will change, but please don't take it as fact. They can be used for good or evil Evil Cracking Porn (something a kid should not be looking at) fir minors, after that you choose Fucking it up, just to fuck it up Good Programming Hacking Accidentally fucking it up while learning something Bypassing Parental Controls (for learning (not school, but about computers)and playing helicopter game (best game ever IMO) not doing evil shit) Then again age=<2: kid prone to spill liquids on electronics electronics+liquids=not good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKo Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Porn isn't evil, its just unsuitable for minors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nullArray Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Porn isn't evil, its just unsuitable for minors. Unless it's child porn, which is apparently so awful and prevalent that it warrants the violation of net neutrality. It's like, their only argument for taking NN down..., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimmer Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Child Porn always evil Porn unsuitable for minors which 7th graders are and it would be a minor using the computer. Sorry if I was clear enough, cleared it up I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmay313 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Take this as you will but for all of you that dont see the pros of placing computers in students hands or how the pros out weigh the cons, well you are thinking the same as the teachers that do not want and do not use the computers in there classrooms. I work IT for a School District in South Dakota (yes we have technology up here, running water and bathrooms inside even) our highschool is in the 1:1 program. that is 1:1 computer to student ratio for those that do not know. we are in our second year of the program with our gateway (now out of buisness MPC) M285-E Tablets. we are looking at getting new computers for our incoming freshman, there is a bit of a debate over tablets vs netbook type laptops. I have been working with schools and their 1:1 program for about 3 years now. I started as a workstudy in collage (imaging and replacing parts mostly in a middle school). I also had the task of testing the security of the Highschool Image at one point. they where disapointed when i was in with admin rights in less than half an hour ( i played some before getting to work of course). I am now net admin and have 200 students with laptops and wish i had more. out of the 200 i see maybe 20 on a regular schedule it seems, some people just are not the best with computers others try to do stuff and mess them up. There have been some that have posted this as a con I however see it as a pro. the majority of learning experience you will find in life are from trying and failing. It is the failures and the perseverance that keeps us trying and learning. As for hardware, when we had a warranty from a company that was not bankrupt parts where not an issue. very little time was actually spent replacing parts ( i even had a couple students doing parts repairs). now with now warranty we are forced to use broken down machines as parts (10% extra spares came in handy). that is also a large reason as to why we are looking at new machines for next years freshman class. Hardware will break, if you compared what we do with hardware on our budget to what most companies do on there budget you may find we are ahead of the curve. Software, lets face it without it all you have is hardware! for the most part the students are allowed to use the computers for personal as well as homework. there are some restrictions on the personal usage however. Firewall that filters websites and content on the local network, along with software installed on the computers that acts as a proxy redirect for the web traffic filter off campus. school or home there are just some sites that students should be restricted from. we also have software that the students use to connect to the teacher. teachers are able to control the students computers. We are also using software for imaging the computers, I have about 4 different images between staff and students but nothing two hard to keep track off. I also use the same software to remote view students computers. If something looks out of the ordinary on the network monitor i can remote in and view what the student is doing at that time and be completely undetected to the user. Network, we are running a gig lan with Cisco APs in every classroom. APs are all connected to the wireless controller which handles user balancing on the APs and configuration of the APs. all i have to do is plug them in and connect them to the network. before that was installed users would loose signal if more than 30 users where in range of the AP at one time. The state provides a T1 line and also monitors traffic for anything that i may have missed (like 250 computers checking for adobe updates on a daily basis and eating bandwidth) for the most part everything is controled and locked down with software and GP. students for instance can not run programs (.exe, .bat, .vbs, ect...) from flash drives. This may all sound like alot but it is managable when done correctly. there are two of us in IT here and the other guy teaches some classes aswell. all in all i would say my biggest pain is monthly updates from microsoft. we are running WSUS server but just making sure they are installed can be a pain sometimes. The biggest down side to having computers and running this technolgy is not IT in my opinion. it is the lack of know how in the classroom. When you hand a student a computer and dont give them direction or instruction they will run wild with it. (or at least try to) I dont mean hacking as much as playing games or sitting on facebook, possibly even just using it as a portable movie theather. when teachers do not know how to combine the technology with their curriculum student will find other things to do on the computers. One reason i am fighting to keep the tablets over laptops/netbooks is the ability to write out homework math included. I believe if you take that function away from students then the computer looses a large amount of functionality in the classroom. I dont know that a complete renovation of the public school systems and they way they teach is neccessary. teaching the teachers how to use the tools and technology is a must however. showing a teacher how to setup there own online classroom on sharepoint or just a simple web site not only involves the students and computers but also save on paper and ink. their is alot more i could say about this subject and i am sure i will get a chance. I have used enough time out of my day SRB is coming and i am sure i will have a few students (same 20) stopping in. so far this has been a great discussion, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nullArray Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Yeah, it's well understood that teaching kids about technology is great and all. EDIT: I don't think anyone here has ever said that it's good for core school education or fundamental classes. Everyone seems to cite how great giving kids technology because it did good things for them or teaching security is great or blah blah blah (but I may have forgotten what people wrote over the few days that this has been going on). There is no conclusive evidence that 1:1 programs improve grades, test scores, or student knowledge. So if that's the case, why spend all that money on technology when so many other school resources need funding for improvement. I don't see why giving each student a computer is all that necessary, a lab is fine. 7th graders are even less deserving. Computer demands are greater in high school and prepping students for college computer use would prove more useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will-wtf Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 To all, Computers have their role in teaching. I presume that they will be running vista or xp, rosseta stone was a lifesaver for me, I am now near fluent in french. I pay much more attention when I am using it, than I ever would with a teacher present. Classrooms are poor learning environments anyhow. All it takes is one student messing around, no computers involved, for an entire class to learn nothing. Add laptops to that mix and it will only worsen. Schools are only around because it is a convenient solution, not an ideal one. Hospitals are also identical environment, with diseases that evolve in them being the "distraction". A couple of IT lab lessons a week would suffice for their realistic needs while keeping the lab lessons a removable novelty. With regards to replacing notepads, I find that the concept of proofreading impossible on a screen, it has to be paper. Again the idea of having every subject on the computer, is pure nonsense. There are clear cut advantages, such as for english essays; Spell check A wealth of information for Research Easy editing Portability (could lead to plagurism) I write my essays on the computer, and also my french creative writing, as it can auto-correct my mistakes. I am against laptops being in that environment, it will lead to problems with damage, theft and concentration. Just my short opinion.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmay313 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 TWith regards to replacing notepads, I find that the concept of proofreading impossible on a screen, it has to be paper. Again the idea of having every subject on the computer, is pure nonsense. I have an english teacher that corrects all of here papers on her tablet. students submit it via email typed and she marks it up with a pen. and even if spell check is available very few students use it that is a direct quote from our english department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swathe Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 My oldest daughter is in year 7 and she has a pc in her room and a laptop. All her activites are monitored and her daily usage is limited and also depending on behaviour. I think it's a good thing. Got her playing diablo too lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digip Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 my 3 year old son has his own acer aspire one. so yes i think 7th graders should have laptops. Their own at home, or the schools only at school? Its one thing to have a computer. Most students probably have their own pc, and some will have their own laptop, but do they need to have laptops in every classroom in order to learn? Kids are distracted enough in school, if the assignments are going to be on the laptops as well as tests, homework, etc, might as well let your kid stay home and go to school over the internet. I pay taxes so my kids can get an education, not so they can surf the web and twitter about how they hate their teachers during class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swathe Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I pay taxes so my kids can get an education, not surf the web and twitter about how they hate their teachers. Best thing I've read in a while and I totally agree. Imagine sysadmining a school where everything is on computers. NIGHTMARE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nullArray Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Best thing I've read in a while and I totally agree. Imagine sysadmining a school where everything is on computers. NIGHTMARE! I already do? Albeit it's a university. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swathe Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I have a mate who admins a high school. It's a nightmare for him lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will-wtf Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 @timmay313 How do people manage that... Paper all the way for me on that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKo Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I used to do tech support at a uni, between the lectures and the students it was a fucking nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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