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Eviltechie
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Fon is illegal... plus, get a life and stop trying to think of random ass ways to be mean to people, what do you accomplish by being mean to people? Nothing, absolutely nothing... Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Doing some dumb shit like that will just get you in trouble and give us real hackers a bad/worse name. I'm thinking you need to read up on some good 'ol Moonlit Rants, http://moonlitrants.wordpress.com/, seriously... People like you are the ones that drive the real hackers and tinkerers away into seclusion where their great ideas and sources of inspiration never reach the world. Get a life so you won't be hating on the people that actually have friends and other, more important things, to do than be mean to people...

and FYI, what DingleBerries said was nowhere near a flame... wtf...

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Fon is illegal... plus, get a life and stop trying to think of random ass ways to be mean to people, what do you accomplish by being mean to people? Nothing, absolutely nothing... Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Doing some dumb shit like that will just get you in trouble and give us real hackers a bad/worse name. I'm thinking you need to read up on some good 'ol Moonlit Rants, http://moonlitrants.wordpress.com/, seriously... People like you are the ones that drive the real hackers and tinkerers away into seclusion where their great ideas and sources of inspiration never reach the world. Get a life so you won't be hating on the people that actually have friends and other, more important things, to do than be mean to people...

and FYI, what DingleBerries said was nowhere near a flame... wtf...

So if a fon is illegal then why are we teaching people how to make one?

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If I had wanted to be flamed, I would have asked "How do you hack ...?"

you sorta did ask that.

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So if a fon is illegal then why are we teaching people how to make one?

illegal != immoral. However, what you're asking about is quite immoral/rude, so I would advise you just to leave.

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So if a fon is illegal then why are we teaching people how to make one?

Assuming you mean Jasager rather than fon, if you meant fon then Fonera would disagree that they are illegal.

Jasager isn't illegal in the same way as it isn't illegal to own a really sharp kitchen knife. If you use that knife to kill someone then you break the law.

The idea behind Jasager is for a penetration testing tool. If you are working a job and you have physical access to the site you can go in and leave Jasager behind then use it to take control of their wireless devices. All legal as long as it is in your contract.

If some people use Jasager to interfere with their neighbours wifi without permission then they are breaking the law and I'd like them to do an rm -rf / on their fon and go and sign up at the nearest monastery to atone for their sins.

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As you all have stated, yes, Jasager on a Fon is not illegal, but manipulating/sniffing some random person's WiFi is, which, I'm sure, is what was intended. And no hacking is not always illegal. Hacking, in my eyes, is finding new, innovative ideas which either improve something or make it do something other than it's intended use. And I'm sure everybody has their own idea about what a hacker is, and there will never be a time in which everybody agrees, but following a tutorial, that you probably don't understand, too any degree, then "PWNING SUM WIFIZ" with "kittenwars" is by no means hacking...

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As you all have stated, yes, Jasager on a Fon is not illegal, but manipulating/sniffing some random person's WiFi is, which, I'm sure, is what was intended.

My day job is as a pen-tester and as stated many times, the original design of Jasager is for use on pen tests. Its use can be backed up by the fact that last year I was discussing creating a commercial version of it with a large UK security firm. The credit crunch unfortunately killed that deal but I still have the ideas and when the economy picks up I'll be considering it again.

I agree that attacking people without permission is wrong and possibly illegal. I won't say definitely because if they connect to your AP and ask for service then that is their choice.

I'm happy to help anyone who has problems getting the device working but have rejected a number of requests for help when the question has been of the type "how do I hack my neighbour". I've also seen others on the forums reject this type of question. I think installing and getting Jasager working is a great project as it teaches an area of skills that normally people wouldn't be involved with including embedded device hacking and ICS/routing. The skills I learnt developing this and helping others have helped me with commercial projects and hopefully it will help others.

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As you all have stated, yes, Jasager on a Fon is not illegal, but manipulating/sniffing some random person's WiFi is, which, I'm sure, is what was intended. And no hacking is not always illegal. Hacking, in my eyes, is finding new, innovative ideas which either improve something or make it do something other than it's intended use. And I'm sure everybody has their own idea about what a hacker is, and there will never be a time in which everybody agrees, but following a tutorial, that you probably don't understand, too any degree, then "PWNING SUM WIFIZ" with "kittenwars" is by no means hacking...

Agreed, I had to write a paper on the difference between a Hacker and a Cracker for my IT major. Below is what I can recall, however I can post the whole paper if anyone wants to see it

Well, hacking is a misnomer. hacking in general is modifying say a piece of hardware to do something it was not designed to do. For example (as stated in another post) flashing the fon and putting it into a pineapple that is hacking. An astronomer the modifies his telescope could be called an astronomy hacker.

At the other end is Cracking. This is when you crack someones WIFI connection or crack a password on a system.

Also, the mainstream media has a lot to do with the abuse of the term hacker probably because of their ignorance. Because let's face it some of the are not credible for example fox broadcast about Mass Effect goes to show you how much research they actually do.

That's it for me before I get into rant mode.

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Agreed, I had to write a paper on the difference between a Hacker and a Cracker for my IT major. Below is what I can recall, however I can post the whole paper if anyone wants to see it

Well, hacking is a misnomer. hacking in general is modifying say a piece of hardware to do something it was not designed to do. For example (as stated in another post) flashing the fon and putting it into a pineapple that is hacking. An astronomer the modifies his telescope could be called an astronomy hacker.

At the other end is Cracking. This is when you crack someones WIFI connection or crack a password on a system.

Also, the mainstream media has a lot to do with the abuse of the term hacker probably because of their ignorance. Because let's face it some of the are not credible for example fox broadcast about Mass Effect goes to show you how much research they actually do.

That's it for me before I get into rant mode.

Maybe I am showing my age here, but I have been involved in the underground since before the internet. Does anyone else remember when hacking was still exploration and cracking was just breaking copy protection on software? Does anyone here remember h/p/a/v/c? Ah, the good old days of txt files and three letter affiliations. lol

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Are you actually trying to be mean, or just pull pranks?

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Maybe I am showing my age here, but I have been involved in the underground since before the internet. Does anyone else remember when hacking was still exploration and cracking was just breaking copy protection on software? Does anyone here remember h/p/a/v/c? Ah, the good old days of txt files and three letter affiliations. lol

Are you referring to file attributes and/or switches?

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LOL man, nah, That is what we refered to the underground scene back then. HPAV. Hacking/Phreaking/Anarchy/Virii/Cracking(or)Carding

Holy crap, Maybe I am old. :o

Oh, I was thinking tech instead of acronym's. You would happen to have a Capitan Crunch Whistle would you? I lost mine a long time ago.

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@Eviltechie- I read your post and I see people "debating" on which things are illegal and legal and other things, but I was wondering one thing Eviltechie. You asked this question, but have you learned anything from the opinions of people? If so what have you learned? That is the unique thing about Hak5. Everyone's opinions and knowledge comes together to form a great community of people that learn from each other. I have spent the past few days exploring this and learning. So, eviltechie if you should learn anything from your post it is that whatever you intend on doing with the information from people that you should not use it maliciously. All I ask is that you do not be one of the people that drive the real hackers away.

please look at this definition http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/sDefi...i212220,00.html

I leave it to you to interpret the message

cheers,

Destro

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