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Could this work to anonymize data over internet?


2Tall4U
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whooh... where do i start...

at the lowest level you have to look at an ethernet packet and the general reason why ethernet works.

Ethernet IS the heart of the internet/web/any form of networking.

Ethernet does not just specify wired connections. Ethernet IS a generalized spec of networking.

It is first essential to know the process of networking from the system level to the signal level, which is defined by the 7 layer osi model.

Ill just type it and you read it.

7.Application -- data--------software (i.e. email/irc/etc)

6.Presentation - data-------software (browser/xml/etc)

5.Session ------data--------protocols/os/etc (connects software layers [or layers 7 and 6] to the lower layers)

4.Transport ----- segment--ports -------------routers (if configured this way), or something like a firewall

3.Network ------ packet-----ip addresses-----routers/switches(some)

2.Datalink ------- frame-----mac--------------nic cards *all nics have a mac*/hubs/etc,

1.Physical ------- bit ---------signal on copper/glass/atmosphere--cat5, fiber optic cable, and wifi/sat. etc.

go here for a better picture/reference: Osi_model.JPG

everytime you do something on the web through any interface, data goes from the top to the bottom of the osi model in a process called Encapsulation - which is simply wrapping the data to be compatible with the next lower layer, and when it is sent to the physical layer, it is changed modulated into whatever the physical layer is utilizing for a connection (i.e. power pulses for copper/cat5/etc, light pulses for glass/fiber, or frequencies for atmosphere/wifi/sat. etc.)

When it is picked up by a router (which it's inevitable it will. My data hits my linksys before even going out on the network, and chances are if your using any kind of high speed i-net, you at least have some kind of routing device built into your modem) it goes up the osi model decapsulating the data to find out where to send the data. If you ever hear of someone talking about a layer 3 device it usually means a router of some sort, or like a layer 4 which could be a router or a firewall depending on how it is configured.

Now we'll stop here in the process to explain a major reason why this would not work.

You have to have to have tcp for making sure that the data that is getting sent is good.

TCP- Transport control protocol.

You have to have this if you want the data to arrive in the proper peices and an exact copy of what you had before. The ethernet network believe it or not is a very chaotic place. At any given time you can have what is called a collision. Any connection from one ethernet device to another could be an example of whats called a "collision domain" and it's called such because that is exactly what happens sometimes when you have a full-duplex network where two things are communicating on the same line at the same time. Now if you were just going from computer to computer or router to router you really couldnt quite define it as such, but in a reg. networking scenario this is how it is.

So how does tcp make sure everything is as it should?

If you looked at a data packet that uses a "connection oriented" protocol (i.e. tcp)

ex: r00220010702mul01_02.gif, then you would find that there is an ecc (error checking)[here shown as the part that says "checksum" bit that basicly matches the data to the bit at the end through an equation that finds if it matches or not. If it does, then it keeps going and everything is smooth. If it does not, the router/computer/firewall/server/etc. drops the packet completely and pronounces a nak (negative aknowledgement) back to the sending host computer to tell it that the data didnt send right and it needs to resend that one packet.

If the router/server/etc. cannot read the raw data on the packet and match it to the ecc, then it will always drop the packet.

wheww... you should have paid me money for typing all this :P wanna know more? read up and go to college.

(btw, im in CCNA2 right now (cisco certified network administrator class #2) if you wanna know how i learned all this.. i got ccna3 and ccna4 to go...)

I work construction part time, and I want to go to technical school, the truth is that does inspire me to go to tech school, I really do mean that

Thank you for taking the time

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not a prob. 2Tall4U! actually it makes me feel good to teach some of this stuff to everybody else.

btw, may wanna read back through the origional post. I edited it in a few parts to make more sense and i really didnt mean to sound like an asshole at the end... im just tired.

oh and thanx again learnaseyego. lol, were like groupies of each other j/k

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oh SRY about quad posting! but one more quick info post:

If you would like to know more about networking in general, and especially if you dont/cant have money to buy extra computers and routers and such, go download packet tracer w/ the tutorials. It's kinda hard to find you'll have to download it but it's a virtual networking environment shown through a gui.

It is very cisco router centric, but the basic principals stay the same no matter what type of network.

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not a prob. 2Tall4U! actually it makes me feel good to teach some of this stuff to everybody else.

btw, may wanna read back through the origional post. I edited it in a few parts to make more sense and i really didnt mean to sound like an asshole at the end... im just tired.

oh and thanx again learnaseyego. lol, were like groupies of each other j/k

Both You and Learnaseyego remind me of some of my friends, this is honest

You both know how I get when I'm awake for way to long and drinking Ha Ha, but yeah I consider you both good pals

Anytime either of you don't have enough time to look up something then post a question in a recent post of mine and I'll see what I can do

Nice talking to ya both

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whooh... where do i start...

at the lowest level you have to look at an ethernet packet and the general reason why ethernet works.

Ethernet IS the heart of the internet/web/any form of networking.

Ethernet does not just specify wired connections. Ethernet IS a generalized spec of networking.

It is first essential to know the process of networking from the system level to the signal level, which is defined by the 7 layer osi model.

Ill just type it and you read it.

7.Application -- data--------software (i.e. email/irc/etc)

6.Presentation - data-------software (browser/xml/etc)

5.Session ------data--------protocols/os/etc (connects software layers [or layers 7 and 6] to the lower layers)

4.Transport ----- segment--ports -------------routers (if configured this way), or something like a firewall

3.Network ------ packet-----ip addresses-----routers/switches(some)

2.Datalink ------- frame-----mac--------------nic cards *all nics have a mac*/hubs/etc,

1.Physical ------- bit ---------signal on copper/glass/atmosphere--cat5, fiber optic cable, and wifi/sat. etc.

It would have been great to have the TCP layers next to the 7 Layer OSI model, but that may have confused some people especially if the layers involved in UDP were displayed.

who's up for some subnetting?

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OK! Scenario:

IP given/bought from isp: 74.230.10.5/22

Atlanta base needs 400 computer ip's

Chicago base needs 240 computer ip's

Washington base needs 85 computer ip's

also wan links between the three need 2 ip's for each of the 3 links to work with redundancy and be failsafe and they need to be connected as follows:

packettracerscreenshotat9.jpg

and yah, putting tcp against it would have thrown everyone for a loop. I still dont remember it off the top of my head though :P

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If there was two computers connected together online that did not have ascii, but instead both computers had a unique and identical language other then ascii, would the data that they would send and receive online between both computers be recognizable?

Sorry this wouldn't work, you've just changed the coding, which is trivial to decode almost always, especially with the advancements in cryptanalysis.

Coding is not cryptography, that's is a very importantly lesson to learn, that many people get wrong.

Also, if your developing protocols etc. for computers you should release all of your work to the community for it to be tested and checked (especially true with cryptography), also this means that you can't hide behind obscurity, which is the only thing protected this idea.

The network stack is all very interesting, but the original question would be to anonymize data, that sounds to me like you want to stop people from working out who it is from or who it is going if they are listening in some. The best solution this this is to use tor at the moment.

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Sorry this wouldn't work, you've just changed the coding, which is trivial to decode almost always, especially with the advancements in cryptanalysis.

Coding is not cryptography, that's is a very importantly lesson to learn, that many people get wrong.

Also, if your developing protocols etc. for computers you should release all of your work to the community for it to be tested and checked (especially true with cryptography), also this means that you can't hide behind obscurity, which is the only thing protected this idea.

The network stack is all very interesting, but the original question would be to anonymize data, that sounds to me like you want to stop people from working out who it is from or who it is going if they are listening in some. The best solution this this is to use tor at the moment.

Thank You, I agree that proxy servers and encryption seem to be the way to go for now, my thought about if there is any way to change code in a unique way is so that it would be like fort knox as long as the hardware on either end was not accessed or accessed intact

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2Tall4U, learn some forum etiquette(ex: double and triple posting, a no no - use one post to reply to several if needed using quotes), how to use a pc and the internet (You seem to have a lot of questions that can easily be answered with goolge or are just common knowledge with reference to computing and how things work), and read up on networking in general.

You could reduce a lot of the flames coming your way if you just did some reading and took your time to really dig in a little on your own.

http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl...amp;btnG=Search

http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl...amp;btnG=Search

http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl...amp;btnG=Search

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2Tall4U, learn some forum etiquette(ex: double and triple posting, a no no - use one post to reply to several if needed using quotes), how to use a pc and the internet (You seem to have a lot of questions that can easily be answered with goolge or are just common knowledge with reference to computing and how things work), and read up on networking in general.

You could reduce a lot of the flames coming your way if you just did some reading and took your time to really dig in a little on your own.

http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl...amp;btnG=Search

http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl...amp;btnG=Search

http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl...amp;btnG=Search

Thank you, this is the first forum that I have ever signed up to and I feel like an idiot, I don't know heads or tails about how to and how not to use the functions of the posts, I have a good heart though

Thank you Moonlit, I will take some time off and read up on how to post ect

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