2Tall4U Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 If there was two computers connected together online that did not have ascii, but instead both computers had a unique and identical language other then ascii, would the data that they would send and receive online between both computers be recognizable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparda Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 If there was two computers connected together online that did not have ascii, but instead both computers had a unique and identical language other then ascii, would the data that they would send and receive online between both computers be recognizable? I'm going to say yes. But I think the correct answer is "Your question is so lacking in detail it can't possibly be answered". Besides, every computer on the internet uses a universal language, it's called Ethernet. Not only is your question unanswerable, there is no need for an answer becasue Ethernet exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Tall4U Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 If that would interfere with the users experience then what about using a virtual machine with a regular installed os with ascii and the other code in the main os on the computer? Maybe some modding would be necessary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Tall4U Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 I'm going to say yes. But I think the correct answer is "Your question is so lacking in detail it can't possibly be answered". Besides, every computer on the internet uses a universal language, it's called Ethernet. Not only is your question unanswerable, there is no need for an answer becasue Ethernet exists. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deleted Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 If your on about just replacing every character with another one, its not very secure, its like one of those word puzzles you get it magazines, but with more characters to work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingToChatWith Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Whats the point of any mods? The data going out would be in ASCII regardless. Best answer here: develop your own encryption algorithm and communicate that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Tall4U Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 I'm going to say yes. But I think the correct answer is "Your question is so lacking in detail it can't possibly be answered". Besides, every computer on the internet uses a universal language, it's called Ethernet. Not only is your question unanswerable, there is no need for an answer becasue Ethernet exists. Is there a way to change how a computer communicates with the ethernet, maybe on a level where ascii would normally, but to have only that part changed, so there would be different characters representing different data would be uniquely changed for 2 computers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Tall4U Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 If that is possible then you guys should do a show about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparda Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Is there a way to change how a computer communicates with the ethernet, maybe on a level where ascii would normally, but to have only that part changed, so there would be different characters representing different data would be uniquely changed for 2 computers Well no, non of the routers on the internet would understand what to do with the data... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Tall4U Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 Well no, non of the routers on the internet would understand what to do with the data... Would it be possible to change what both routers are looking for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparda Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Would it be possible to change what both routers are looking for? The ones at the end points, well yes, but that doesn't fix the tens of routers in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Tall4U Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 The ones at the end points, well yes, but that doesn't fix the tens of routers in between. Even between only 2 computers and their own routers that are that are online? Or would isp servers be a factor as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Tall4U Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 At that point, if it is just the isps servers ect that is limiting it working, then what about tunneling it while it is changed over ssh ect as well so that the isps servers ect cannot see the change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingToChatWith Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 You could tunnel the ssh traffic like you said to the other computer that can decode it I suppose. Then again, like anything on the internet, I don't think SSH would know what to with the data if it wasn't standarized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Tall4U Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 If the isps servers ect don't work with data that is not in ascii, then would tunneling the altered data in ssh allow the altered data to go through the isp equipment to the other computer that is also using ssh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Tall4U Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 You could tunnel the ssh traffic like you said to the other computer that can decode it I suppose. Then again, like anything on the internet, I don't think SSH would know what to with the data if it wasn't standarized. That is interesting, I don't know but what about taking an encryption like ssh for example and changing what the characters represent to match, the problem with that is it could then be reverse engineered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Tall4U Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 Does anyone know if the isp ect equipment does not work with data unless the data is ascii compatible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingToChatWith Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 If you can figure out a way to tunnel it through ssh to the ssh server at the end that can forward it to the correct application from there used to decode your data at the end it should be able to be done. No you can't change the lettering of characters in ssh... we're dealing with encryption here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Tall4U Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 If you can figure out a way to tunnel it through ssh to the ssh server at the end that can forward it to the correct application from there used to decode your data at the end it should be able to be done. No you can't change the lettering of characters in ssh... we're dealing with encryption here. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digip Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Either encrypt your data before sending it over any open connction, or use something like SSH to communicate securely between two devices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h3%5kr3w Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 im with digip. You folks need some classes in routing. Read up on NAT,PAT,Ethernet,RIPv1 & v2, and stuff like IGRP, etc, and you'll know why this cannot be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Tall4U Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 im with digip. You folks need some classes in routing. Read up on NAT,PAT,Ethernet,RIPv1 & v2, and stuff like IGRP, etc, and you'll know why this cannot be done. Can you elaborate about some of the specific reasons why it wouldn't work? Would it be the isp servers that couldn't handle the non ascii data? Any specifics that you wish to share would be helpful Thank you h3%5kr3w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Tall4U Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 im with digip. You folks need some classes in routing. Read up on NAT,PAT,Ethernet,RIPv1 & v2, and stuff like IGRP, etc, and you'll know why this cannot be done. Also if you explain any specifics about if it is possible or not for non ascii data to be able to be encrypted online Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Tall4U Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 What if the computers first sent from a flash drive preloaded regular ascii data while authenticating a encrypted connection between both computers, then once both of the computers are connected through a vpn, then they start sending the data that isn't ascii compatible Feel free to criticize any technical areas that wouldn't work with this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h3%5kr3w Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 whooh... where do i start... at the lowest level you have to look at an ethernet packet and the general reason why ethernet works. Ethernet IS the heart of the internet/web/any form of networking. Ethernet does not just specify wired connections. Ethernet IS a generalized spec of networking. It is first essential to know the process of networking from the system level to the signal level, which is defined by the 7 layer osi model. Ill just type it and you read it. 7.Application -- data--------software (i.e. email/irc/etc) 6.Presentation - data-------software (browser/xml/etc) 5.Session ------data--------protocols/os/etc (connects software layers [or layers 7 and 6] to the lower layers) 4.Transport ----- segment--ports -------------routers (if configured this way), or something like a firewall 3.Network ------ packet-----ip addresses-----routers/switches(some) 2.Datalink ------- frame-----mac--------------nic cards *all nics have a mac*/hubs/etc, 1.Physical ------- bit ---------signal on copper/glass/atmosphere--cat5, fiber optic cable, and wifi/sat. etc. look here for a better picture/reference: everytime you do something on the web through any interface, data goes from the top to the bottom of the osi model in a process called Encapsulation - which is simply wrapping the data to be compatible with the next lower layer, and when it is sent to the physical layer, it is changed modulated into whatever the physical layer is utilizing for a connection (i.e. power pulses for copper/cat5/etc, light pulses for glass/fiber, or frequencies for atmosphere/wifi/sat. etc.) When it is picked up by a router (which it's inevitable it will. My data hits my linksys before even going out on the network, and chances are if your using any kind of high speed i-net, you at least have some kind of routing device built into your modem) it goes up the osi model decapsulating the data to find out where to send the data. If you ever hear of someone talking about a layer 3 device it usually means a router of some sort, or like a layer 4 which could be a router or a firewall depending on how it is configured. Now we'll stop here in the process to explain a major reason why this would not work. You have to have a error correcting protocol such as tcp for making sure that the data that is getting sent is good. TCP- Transport control protocol. You have to have this if you want the data to arrive in the proper peices and an exact copy of what you had before. The ethernet network believe it or not is a very chaotic place. At any given time you can have what is called a collision. Any connection from one ethernet device to another could be an example of whats called a "collision domain" and it's called such because that is exactly what happens sometimes when you have a full-duplex network where two things are communicating on the same line at the same time. Now if you were just going from computer to computer or router to router you really couldnt quite define it as such, but in a reg. networking scenario this is how it is. So how does tcp make sure everything is as it should? If you looked at a data packet that uses a "connection oriented" protocol (i.e. tcp) ex: , then you would find that there is an ecc (error checking)[here shown as the part that says "checksum" bit that basicly matches the data to the bit at the end through an equation that finds if it matches or not. If it does, then it keeps going and everything is smooth. If it does not, the router/computer/firewall/server/etc. drops the packet completely and pronounces a nak (negative aknowledgement) back to the sending host computer to tell it that the data didnt send right and it needs to resend that one packet. If the router/server/etc. cannot read the raw data on the packet and match it to the ecc, then it will always drop the packet. wheww... you should have paid me money for typing all this :P wanna know more? read up and/or go to college. learn all you can. (btw, im in CCNA2 right now (cisco certified network administrator class #2) just if you wanted to know how i learned all this.. i still have ccna3 and ccna4 to go...) btw, did i mention im running on 3 1/2 hrs of sleep right now? (went to bed @ 2:30 yesterday morn, woke up @ 5:50, and it's 1:35 at this time.) blah going to sleep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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