Thanks Everyone! I def shouldn't have let the Sec+ lapse. I understand that the industry goons lol / HR suits want to see something. They need some degree or cert as a CYA in case their hire ends up being a dud. I graduated cum laud and was in the comp sci honorary..... a bit over 10 years ago! I have a decent resume with fortune 100's and start-ups, but my recent 2-3 years worth of work has been contracts. I guess I've recently placed more value on living and enjoying life than I do being owned by a company 8-4 for 365. For my work experience, I have been responsible for security, but I've never had it in my title. However, I would love to do some pen test contracts and want to keep learning and breaking new things ;^) I was thinking the CEH would be a good route, but after hearing this it looks like I'll be doing the OSCP. Throw-ins and impromptu obstacles are important, but if I'm paying for them I want them to be practical.