Debianrulz

I agree, the correct spelling is Microshaft. Micro$oft is just how Bill and Steve spell it because that is how they see it. See when you use their products you get shafted and they get money.

You can win with us and we want winners. It's just that you are playing with the closed source people and you certainly can not win with them.

Try kernel 27 or 28. They are both huge updates with MASSIVE amounts of new hardware support built in.

For wifi, have you tried kernel 28 or WICD? I use WICD and it works great.

True, Kantian ethics are not perfect, but some of it applies and is practical. After all, my mom, and probably everyone else's too, taught us to "do undo others as you would have them do unto you' and our moms learned that from the bible. And, even though I am an atheist I don't disagree with most of the philosophical teachings of the bible and that particular one is one I will teach my son.

I could not agree with you more. On every point you are 100% correct. But please understand that with the freedom of choice comes responsibility and that you are the sum of your choices so those choices say a lot about you, everything in fact. If you choose to steal your OS, you are a thief with little or no moral fiber and no self respect, Kant taught us the we should universalize every choice and understand that if it is not ok all of the time in all situations then it is not ok in the present one. Please don't steal software, music or anything else from anyone unless you believe it is ok for everyone to steal everything from everyone else all of the time in all situations, it's hypocritical and ignorant to do otherwise and don't encourage others to steal or present theft as an honest choice, it's sleazy. If you must use windows, mac os or any other commercial system please purchase a legal copy from an authorized vendor.

Really? How did you get all of your family and friends off of Windows? I still get bothered constantly about fixing computers. It's good money though, one friend gave me $100.00 to run his restore CD.

I apologize for flaming you before. I tend to be abrasive with people about everything so I'm not picking on you, it's my fault not yous. That's true, most users, including CS professors, and professors in general, are 12:00 flashers, believe me, I know, but just because most users are dipshits doesn't make it ok to be a dipshit, and no I'm not calling you a dipshit, I'm just saying don't defend them. Also, please don't assume that Linux users are any more enlightened than Windows or Mac users, the majority of us are dipshits too. Just like with Windows and Mac users, not all Linux users are created equally. And it is not true at all that a Linux user might better understand the difference between a desktop and a laptop and as far as I'm concerned, if you don't know whether your computer is a desktop or a laptop you have no business using anything more complex than an Etch-A-Sketch and you need a drool cup. Ubuntu, I think even more than Mac OS X is made for dipshits and I think the trend in the spin off community as a whole is a bad one. I don't think that taking a working, easy to use system like Debian and stripping out all configuration options is not user friendly, in fact I think it is the opposite. I mean, doesn't anyone realize that if we continue to cater to the lowest common denominator then the denominator will only become more common and lower. No, I don't think a wide open system like Slackware is the right answer either but users should be faced with some choices and configuration options and they should not have to shell out more money for those options. Oh, and don't think that Microsoft provides multiple versions of windows for the sake of their users, they do it for revenue streams. If a consumer goes to the market and finds the computer with all of the features they want but it comes with Vista home premium and they need some feature in Vista business or ultimate, like remote desktop, they have no choice but to buy Vista business or ultimate. If a Linux user decides they need a feature, like remote desktop, they go to the package manager and install it. Of course, that is assuming that a user has any idea what features they will want or need, which most don't.

Frankly, that is just silly. Boot time was made an issue by Microsoft because windows had to be rebooted multiple times per day and businesses were losing money. If they had made an OS that could just stay on and work boot time would not be an issue. My desktop has been rebooted about 4 times in 2 years on Debian 4 for kernel updates and power outages. Same with my laptop on Debian 5.

Umm, well, what are you running? What you download depends on your distro. If its Debian or any variant thereof you want the .deb. If it is a redhat variant you want the .rpm. You can always compile from source but then again you can always do a lot of painful things for no reason, like shove a pocket knife through your big toenail or hit yourself with a hammer.

Yes, yes it was. Winmodems, gotta love them.

<elitism> Is there anything but Debian? </elitism>

<elitism> Is there anything but Debian? </elitism>

Redhat 6.something.

Between porn and pirate bay I don't have any free time.

You're right, the only meaning cost can possibly have is monetary. And no, I'm not challenging you to do anything, if you are happy with windows then by all means use Windows.

Developers are the key. The community is doing its part as the kernel is the largest and most rapid development project ever. What we need is outside development support from vendors. Further, I would argue that Linux has already surpassed windows and mac os on the desktop in its feature set and eye candy at least. I have yet to see a windows or mac desktop that can begin to hold a candle to beryl or compiz. And yeah, you're right, it is easier to use if only for the fact that you can just install and use it and it won't break. Can't make that claim against apple so easily though. I ran an iBook for 8 years and the only system related problem I ever had was a bad hard drive. So OSX is worry free too but it is expensive $$$ to buy a mac and then lay down $129.00 at least every 2 years because you can't get software anymore. Unless of course you are a thief who does upgrade your OS without paying for it, which is a whole other argument for FOSS. You get free (in many ways) software that you didn't steal.

Who is everyone and where did I mention about money? Where does this idea that linux advocates are cheap come from. $0.00 is not the only kind of free and cost has forms other than money.

Obviously you aren't a very good computer science student since you have never actually installed Linux. You see young Jedi, when you install Linux (install, not copy from a live CD) you are given options about what software you want with the system. Those choices, in the case of Debian (my distro of choice and therefore the one I am most familiar with), include several server packages, laptop or desktop. For my laptop I chose laptop, for my desktop I chose desktop, no servers no "tools that might actually harm the computer" (whatever that means). For a web server I would choose web server, for a domain controller I would choose samba server, etc. But these tools are not installed unless you choose them.

There is another HUGE point that I don't ever see covered in these forums and flame wars and that is that Linux is truly one OS to rule them all. YOu can install, literally, the same OS on every machine in your enterprise from laptops and simple data entry (OOo) boxes to engineering, accounting, and the servers. One disc, literally, one flavor, is all you need. As opposed to Windows or Mac OSX. Vista has four (4) desktop editions and there is a whole family of server editions. Mac OSX has 2 with the desktop and server editions. Frankly, so does Ubuntu for reasons that elude me. But with tru GNU Linux, like Debian (the basis of Ubuntu) there is one version for all needs. Thre is no differentiation between a desktop, laptop and a server OS other than the software installed. Homogeny, continuity, and consistency. That is true low cost ease of use for an enterprise or the home.

Most computer users say "wtf is an exe?" Or, my personal favorite, "where is the any key?" They are light years from worrying about gunzip. And you're right about media to a degree, and that is a great point but it isn't just media, it's the development community as a whole.

Software and driver issues are not Linux problems, they are developer problems. Linux lacks support from hardware and software manufacturers not the other way around. Linux is ready, they are not. And what you are saying about the shell and programming is misguided. You can use Linux, full time, and do no more programming or command line work than you do in Vista or Leopard. And flash works perfectly too as does Java and all other technologies I have tried to use on the web. I have heard the complaints about web browsing before regarding Flash and Java in Linux and Mac OS I am not sure what the root cause is because I have never experienced those issues in any OS. And, no, Linux is no more of a cure-all than Windows or Mac OS, but it is a viable alternative. And if I get flamed it is not my choice to do so, it is the flamers choice.

I have been waiting for desktop Linux to "arrive" since 1999. In 2001 I tried desperately to live on it but it wasn't quite ready yet so I bought an iBook with OSX because it was a desktop 'nix that was usable. In late 2006 I installed Debian 4 on my desktop and never looked back, in the summer of 2008 I sold my iBook and bought a Toshiba satellite L305. I really, really tried to like Vista. The Toshiba has 3 gigs of ram and a 2 ghz dual core so Vistas requirements were more than met but explorer (shell not browser) crashed routinely and the cdrom drive liked to disappear and the sound liked to stop working from time to time. After a few system restores I gave up on Vista and tried to install Debian 4 but it was too old to support the hardware on the new laptop. I had to ive with Ubuntu 8.04 until Debian 5 was installable which was around august, I think. Once I got Debian 5 installed I had to live without power management until I got up the nerve to install kernel 27. Now everything works better than ever and I am happy. If I were an Ubuntu user I would have been happy in June with Ubuntu 8.04 but I wanted Debian so I had to wait a bit longer. I do everything on my systems that I did in windows, I game (a lot) multimedia works perfectly, I have a great office package that I depend on and use regularly, I surf the web, watch DVD's and listen to music. I stream internet radio and enjoy multimedia of all kinds. I was able to do all of this on my desktop since late 2006 and I did not ever have to write a single line of code or edit configuration files (with the exception of sources.list) anymore than a windows user has to edit the registry or their startup programs in msconfig unless I wanted to. So the truth is I don't need windows, no one does, and all of the "extra work" I did with Linux was my own doing, not the systems. In fact I suffer less in Linux and spend less time tweaking and nursing my system than I did with Windows or Mac OSX. The truth is Linux is ready, and the big scary monster, Debian Linux, is ready. Are you?